Former Buddhist monk Nithya Shanti joins Jonathan for a profound exploration of identity, awakening, money, and the deeper truths beneath transformation. From monkhood to the material world, this conversation reveals what happens when life becomes the teacher.
What if the journey of transformation isn’t a journey at all, but actually a distraction from what's really here?
In this expansive conversation, Jonathan sits with Nithya Shanti to explore the tension between seeking and surrender, monkhood and worldly life, silence and expression. Nithya shares his path from childhood loss to monastic devotion, and the eventual unraveling of the very ideas that once shaped his spiritual identity.
Together, they unpack the paradoxes of growth, the complexity of money and relationships, and why true wisdom may lie in loosening our concepts rather than refining them.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: [00:00:00] , Nithya, it is so great to have you on here in this episode. I'm excited to dive in. We, we normally start these episodes with trying to understand the context of who you were prior to the onset of your transformational journey.
But your story is quite unique in that there were a couple of key points. There, there was a point when you were in corporate work and then became a Buddhist monk. There was a point where you got into meditation at the age of 16. you can say that your father's passing, the alternative school that you went.
What is the context that we need to know about you, Nithya, of who you were prior to these key moments in your life and how they shaped you?
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: So first of all, thank you, Jonathan, for having me on the podcast, and, uh, happy to have this conversation with you. I want to actually start by my, my very idea of transformation transformed a sense over the years. so while we can, for the purpose of this podcast, use the word transformation, [00:01:00] uh, I'm more and more skeptical about how much I have transformed.
Have I transformed? What has been the transformation? Is there a need to transform? The assumptions I've had about how I needed to be, who I needed to become, a lot of that has-- Maybe that's been the transformation. The transformation or my ideas around transformation. yes, the things you mentioned, definitely those were points where, if nothing else, identity, my assumption of who I thought I was, those experiences shook that identity.
My, my father passed away when I was about seven years old, suddenly, like someone-- Actually, people say things casually, and they have an impact on you. Someone just casually whispered into my ear, "You are-- Now you're the man of the house." I was seven years old, and someone said, "Now you're the man of the house."
And something said, "Okay, I'm the man of the house." You know, we-- So I'm s- what does it mean now, you know? So somehow childhood, in a way, in some sense ended because I felt I have to, I shouldn't trouble my mother, I should be [00:02:00] responsible, I should always look after my younger brother and my mother. And so that was definitely one surprise when my father just passed away.
He had a heart condition that didn't seem that serious, but it became serious, and he passed away. And then trying to figure out who I was through my-- We-- Somehow my mo- my mother moved around, so I went to many different schools. So most people probably go to a few schools in their life. I went to like six or seven schools in my entire, know, schooling. So as a result of that was different schools, different kinds of people, expectations from what is, you know, wanted from you in different school systems. So all of that led to a real, uh, kind of upheaval, trying to figure out who am I? Do I fit in? Do I not fit in? Sometime-- In some, some schools and contexts, I felt very confident and felt that, you know, I, I can do this.
In some places, I felt completely out of my, out of my depth. And of course, later on, we'll talk about that, the journey of, you know, I became a monk [00:03:00] for a while and, you know, left the conventional and did those things. So I think each of these, and of course, then leaving that and coming, so-called coming back, it has been a questioning of the identity, a questioning of who I assume I am, uh, I think it's all about. So that's been, uh, the transformation and perhaps continues to be the transformation. I don't think there's any endpoint to it.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Yeah. Who, who did you, uh, assume yourself to be between the ages of 16 and when you entered into corporate life? 'Cause, you know, the corporate pathway is a very particular pathway, and you chose to go th- in through that, and I'm curious, what, what were you thinking? What were you aiming towards in choosing that path?
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: The funny thing is I wanted to become a monk right after s- right after high school actually, 'cause I'd already begun this meditative journey at the age of 16, 17. [00:04:00] And I had a school teacher who had gone and become a monk in Sri Lanka And he came back after eight years, and I just lo- he just had-- I really felt a shift in his being. He was so relaxed. He used to be quite a uptight guy with very judgmental. But when he came back after those eight years to India, I hung out with him, I just loved.
He was like a glowing person. I just loved his company, and, uh, it wa- almost like he just casually would say a thing that would just make me rethink so many assumptions I had about myself and life. even before, you know, getting into college and, and, and doing my MBA and the corporate world, already the seed had been planted. And if I'm honest, somehow, I think in India, this is called sanskaras. We, we come with these latent predispositions. In my case, I remember even at the age of four or five, four years or five years, I would pretend, you know, like sit in meditation pose, close my eyes. Like [00:05:00] you-- we have these pictures of rishis and sages in India who kind of close their eyes and meditating in the forest.
I would somehow role play that kind of stuff. So I don't know where this is coming from, if I picked that up from some, you know, comic book. We had these Indian comics which have the mythologies, Amar Chitra Katha they're called, and they have a, in, in a comic form, the Indian mythologies and saints, and maybe that influenced me, but who knows? So somehow this, this inclination, this proclivity, we once went to, um, to Rishikesh on a school trip, and we were hiking in the mountains, and I saw a small cave, and I was magnetically drawn to that cave. And there was nobody in the cave, but I saw a simple blanket. I saw s- a few books. I saw some, you know, beads, and I said, "Wow, this is life.
It's so simple. All you need is a place to sleep. you need is a few books for your intellectual stuff, you know, a little bit of food perhaps." And this is this, and somehow I didn't feel like leaving that place. So these are little, little incidents, but even before, you know, getting into all of this, I was [00:06:00] already somehow there was a predisposition, you could say, towards these things. Uh, but in my case, I somehow ended up going to college, ended up doing an MBA. I had, I had teachers who said, "Don't be in a rush. Slow down. I know you want this. I know you want to, but, but rushing it will only make you later on if for whatever reason later on you change your mind, you will then say, have the sense of I wish I had completed my education," whatever, fill in the blanks. So even though I was very drawn to that, I somehow listened to them, and I did go ahead and do my, the usual, you know, uh, in the US you call it undergraduate, graduate. So I did those programs, and I also worked in the corporate world for maybe less than six months. But it became very clear to me that this is not my path, right?
This is somehow it was just so clear to me that-- So it was not really coming so much from ambition. It was mostly coming from a sense of, okay, that's what I'm expected to do. That's what maybe, that's what everyone's saying is the right thing to do. But at a certain point, it became so strong, it felt like it doesn't matter now.
I'm not gonna wait anymore. That's-- [00:07:00] There's a lovely quote I read around that time When the voice and the vision on the inside becomes louder than the voices and opinions on the outside, that's when you've begun mastering your life So at that point, that's what happened. The inner guidance was, the inner voice was so strong, don't even know if it was a voice. It was just like, "This is what has to be done," that I just couldn't postpone it or ignore it anymore
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: What did those around you that knew you, what did they say? How did they react?
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: Some were not surprised because they had seen my interest in philosophy and, you know, these kind of deeper conversations. So, I remember in school, I don't know how you do it in the US, but in India sometimes we have, we give nicknames to every, every student. So my classmates nicknamed me Swami Harshananda.
My name back then was Harsh, before [00:08:00] Nityay it was Harsh. So they nicknamed me Swami Harshananda. So already in school they were seeing this kind of proclivity towards these kind of things. So that was one. So I usually, friends and acquaintances were usually quite happy. family was not happy. They were, they were-- They found this to be a very strange decision to want to leave my corporate, corporate career and, and even if they thought, "Okay, take another job," or, you know, "Try something," what is this monk stuff?
Like, they just couldn't, they couldn't wrap their heads, heads around. They had seen me be interested in meditation and things, but they never thought it'll go to the extent of wanting to become a monk. So it was a lot of surprise, and I would even say disappointment. there was some drama.
There was some, a few months of, uh, a lot of, uh, discussions and, sadness. But somehow, I don't know how to explain it, but there was a kind of, I felt like I don't know if it's stubbornness. Stubbornness seems like [00:09:00] an egoic response. was just a sense of absolute clarity that I have to do this. You know, I have done my best to listen to, you know, parents. I've done my best to, you know, be reasonably good at school, college, whatever. I- I've done that. I've, I've done what you expected me to do until this point. But now at this point, I need to, need to be answerable to myself, not to you.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Yes
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: it was just a quiet sense of, I need to do this. It's possible I may not like it, it's possible I will change my mind, but I need to try it. And if I don't do it, then I'll always have a sense of regret
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: What was your experience like in the first couple of years of being a monk?
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: I loved it. In fact, I, in fact, I really liked my monk life. I have no regrets about my monk life. When I first got there, I felt I was living a dream. I would literally wake up in the morning and pinch myself, "Is it really happening or am I dreaming?" I mean, it's so beautiful, living in a beautiful monastery. My first monastery was about 25 acres. Later on, I went to a 5,000-acre monastery. Uh, the [00:10:00] entire village feeds you. You walk to the village to get your food. You have a huge library of books. have companions who have-- who are very sincere, who have dedicated themselves to something that they believe in. I said, "Wow, this is the life."
Simple living, high thinking, whatever you wanna call it. Eating once a day, you know, look- doing your duties, meditating, being in touch with the teachings. I was just in... It was, uh-- Of course, it's not that it was, it was, it was always easy. You have your own mind to contend with. in terms of the opportunity, I felt so blessed.
I was so, so grateful to be there
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Hmm. And your relationship to your inner world to out- out- um, outwardly ambitions, how did you notice that shifting?
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: I think it shifted to inner ambition, right? It went from maybe I was ambitious. There was a point when I was ambitious. I wanted to be a fashion designer for some reason. I had a friend who was a... Somehow he inspired me. I said, "That's where the money is, and that's where the women are," so I want to [00:11:00] be a fashion designer. Uh, and that's so-- And somehow I wanted to be a fashion designer, but somehow when I got introduced to meditation at the age of 16 or 17, it shifted. Somehow my consciousness shifted, and I realized it's not about experiences, it's about how I relate to the people around me, to the things around me. It's not about what happens, it's about how I relate to what happens. my state of being, my state of consciousness that's primary. And so that's... You know, sometimes I, I joke with people. Someone tells me, someone says, "I'm an interior designer." I say, "So am I." I'm an interior designer.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: That's great. That's great
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: you know? Uh, I don't know if you can design it, but nevertheless, the idea that, you know, how are you, what are you thinking?
What's your attitude? What's your way of looking at it? So that, that kind of... Again, I think I'm, I'm, I'm somehow in my own flow of thoughts today. Am I, am I answering your question? Am I just going off?
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: You're absolutely answering the questions. And, and at [00:12:00] one point in your time in, in the monasteries, you're-- it doesn't feel like a fit anymore. There's something inside of you that begins to shift.
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: Yeah
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: what, what begins to happen there for you?
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: It's a, it's a very strange, um, unfolding. there was definitely a point where I said, "I cannot imagine not being a monk." I mean, this is it. literally, you know, from the f-first days of going there, I felt I'd come home. I felt I finally have found my family. This is the real family. I belong here. You know, when I put on the monk robes for the first time, I almost had tears in my eyes. This is the first time I feel I'm wearing correct clothes. I never felt these are correct clothes. Those monk robes felt like correct clothes. The, the monastic chants, which most people take a few months to learn, I was learning them in 15, 20 minutes, some of the chants. is-- How am I-- I'm able to memorize in 20 minutes, 30 minutes, stuff that people take weeks to memorize. It's just coming to me. So a sense of [00:13:00] déjà vu, a sense of I've done this before, I know this stuff, So I could not imagine leaving that ever, actually. So imagine my surprise where somewhere three or four years into it, the cracks begin appearing, and I begin to say that, "You know, is my comfort zone." For many people, being a monk would be a discomfort zone, but actually this is my comfort. It's, it's, it's easy for me to be a monk. I enjoy being a monk. And it's almost like I'm not challenging myself, because relationships challenge me. by myself, doing my practice doesn't really challenge me. So somewhere the cracks began appearing. Also, uh, Theravada Buddhism, which I was, you know, the part, the monastic tradition I was part of was Theravada, which is Southern Buddhism in Thailand Lanka. They do have very much of a goal-oriented model. So it's like, you know, we're trying to get somewhere. We're trying to get to nirvana. We're trying to end our defilements. about getting [00:14:00] somewhere. And somewhere along the whole, the whole paradigm of trying to get somewhere, achieve something, that began to crack for me. Is it true that we have to get somewhere? Is it true that we have to... Like I said, you know, if desires are the problem Then even my desire for a particular state of being is a problem. My desire for nirvana is a problem. And how do I know I don't already have it? this thought came to me that if nirvana is the ultimate truth then it has to be available now. it's a lie like every other lie. If nirvana is not available now, if it requires 30 other practice or 30 lifetimes of practice and developing these, like they have these 10 qualities in, in Theravada Buddhism, para- paramis or paramitas. When the tank gets full, that's when it happens. Like, what if I have to develop something? If by cultivation I will arrive somewhere, [00:15:00] then by lack of cultivation I will also lose it. So the sense of it cannot be a conditioned state began to become more and more clear to me. And in different ways, one very clear example I remember, I was reading about a lady called Hanli Denning, who was a young lady from the US who'd gone to Guatemala, and she saw the kids in the garbage dump in Guatemala City, and she was so shaken to see these little kids who were looking for food and just, you know, fooling around in the garbage dump that she said, "No, I can't just, I can't just not see this.
I can't unsee this." She used the money her parents had set aside for a college fund to start an organization in Guatemala called Safe Passage. And I read about this, and I read about the kind of work she's doing. And something again, I was just in my-- I was actually in a cave at that time, living in a cave, and I began crying. And I said, "My [00:16:00] God, she's so brave." You know, she's giving up her college education. She's going to a different country. She's working with someone she has no con- these kids, she has no, no reason to do this. And these are difficult kids. These are kids who often have substance, you know, abuse issues, who have, who are ADHD, who are, you know, their parents have neglected them.
They're traumatized in various ways. And something about that story just, it broke my heart open. I was crying. And I began to realize that maybe my journey is not just about, like this whole thing of, you know, I want to get it. I want to get enlightenment. It's also coming from a root of some kind of fear. Basically, I'm afraid. I'm afraid of my existence. I'm afraid of what's gonna happen to me. not in this life, then at death, what's gonna happen to me? There's a fear behind that. somewhere, all of those, the little, little experiences to shift priority, and I began to get open to the fact that maybe lifetime is not about just secluding myself and, uh, focusing on my own practice.
Maybe it's... The analogy [00:17:00] was from, from a lake a ra- for, to a roaring stream. The monastic life felt like a lake. It has these boundaries. It's very deep. It's The deeper you dive, the more treasures you get. A roaring stream, you don't know where it's gonna go, left, right, up, down. Is it gonna lose its way? But somehow I realized this, this lifetime is about being a roaring stream and maybe not a lake.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Yeah. How long did it take you to finally make the decision to walk away?
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: It took about, uh, the, the, the initial thought came somewhere in the fourth year, it took another one and a half to two years. But the-- but what, what I did was, I don't know where this wisdom came from, I didn't force it. I just gave it space. I actually said, "I'm not gonna decide. It's gonna decide itself.
I'm not gonna make a decision, 'Okay, I'm leaving.' No. If it has to happen, it'll, it'll decide by itself." And it did. It actually did. It did. Life situations happened. I, I had to go to Malaysia for a bit. I had to come to India for a bit. I had to go to the [00:18:00] US for a bit. I had the monk. traveling everywhere without money.
I di- I didn't use m- money as a monk. So people were arranging tickets and all kinds of interesting things. Life was just organizing itself. And somewhere early 2008, I, I think it was 2nd of Jan or something, and I woke up with a dream, a very clear dream that this phase is over. There was no, there was no doubt.
There was no second... It was like I just woke up in the mind, "Okay, this is over. Monk life is over." And there happened to be a monk from my tradition in my town that, where I was staying at that time, and I The interesting thing about, about Buddhism is it's hard to become a monk, it's easy to leave the monkhood. To leave the monkhood, all you gotta do is tell a person who understands three times, "I, I, I put down the training. I put down the training. I put down the training." And that's it. It's, it's out, right? Most cults, it's easy to get in, hard to get out. With, with this particular cult, if you wanna call it that, it's hard to get in, it's easy to get out.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Sure, [00:19:00] sure. And, and so you then leave monkhood with no material possessions, no money necessarily. How do you then begin building a new life from scratch?
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: Well, there were plenty of well-wishers. someone bought me my first set of normal clothes. Um- I, you're right, I had no money. I'd actually had zero money. I had no bank account. Uh, but my parents were there, they-- I was staying with them for a bit. Mm. I had decided I'll not take a job, I'll follow my joy.
That's one thing I decided. So people would invite me, "Can you do a, can you do a half-day session for us? Can you do a one-day session for us? Can you share your experience?" they'd often make donations. Then someone said, "Can you do a session for my corporate team? How much do you [00:20:00] charge?" I said, "I don't know what I charge."
He said, "Okay, this is what I think we'll pay you." And then little by little pe- it, it kind of got upgraded, right? So I would charge 500 rupees for a one-on-one session, which I think in dollars is about $5 these days, five USD. And then a friend of mine said, "What? You're charging $5? 10X, $50." I said, "Okay, we'll do $50." So suddenly pe- some people who used to come to me stopped coming, and new pe- new people began coming. Then a friend of mine said, "There's a CEO who wants to s- to do a session with you. How much do you charge?" I said very proudly, "$50, you know, $50 an hour." He said, "That's too little. He's not gonna come to you."
I said, " How much should I charge?" He said, "You should charge at least $5,000." I said, "All right, let's do 5,000." So it went from $5 to $50 to I think it was $500, and then lat-later on even I've charged $5,000 for some of my sessions. So the thing is, I began to realize it's not about the money, it's about where people perceive value and whatever their notions are.
[00:21:00] Sometimes if you charge too little, they, they'll think that you're not good enough, right?
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Yes. Yes
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: to accept all corporate until I realized if I start with middle management, senior management doesn't want to do a session with me. They'll go, "This guy's a middle management trainer." But if I start with top management, then I-- they're happy for me to work with any level. So I had to learn the ins and outs of this as I went along. It just kind of made, kind of ex- kind of ex- what do you say? It revealed itself
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Yeah. And, and what was the core of your teaching then?
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: The core of the teaching, I thought of as three things: deep listening, deep love, deep silence. So you could think of it as deep listening in some way, not perfectly, but it some way maps out to witness. Can we be with, with each other, with this moment, with this experience? Witness. Deep love. To really love is to not interfere. It's to witness. [00:22:00] Witness your process and the other person's process. And deep silence goes beyond the subject-object duality, so it's itness. So witness, witness, and itness.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Oh, great. Great.
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: way of expressing it.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Yeah, and how did these corporate folk, uh, respond to this teaching?
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: Somehow they were very, uh, receptive and open. Maybe it was the initial thing would be that I myself had done an MBA and worked for a short while. So to some extent, my languaging was not too heavily spiritual or philosophical. I was, I think I've always done this. I've tried to share from where I am and what I found seems to work for me. So there's no sense of trying to push that you should do this or you need to do. There's no sense of pushing. There's a sense of, hey, this, are a few things I discovered, and see if any of this makes sense to you. So I think most people, even people who came in skeptical or came in resistant, they said, "Okay, but you know, I'm, I'm-- there is something here that I can apply in my life [00:23:00] or with my kids, or, you know, it makes me think about things."
So most people have, um, something that they felt was of value from whatever interaction we've had. It's very rare that I have a-- There are, of course, there are times when people feel that, okay, I'm coming from some Buddhist background. There are people, there was once a person who refused to attend my session because he said, "No, this is against my religion. I can't attend a session." So that, that, that happened. But once in a while you'll have people who have a very strong mindset about things, and I don't think that's wrong either. I mean, why look? Because I think one of the principles I like to follow, although I, I'm sure I fail at, is non-interference. Non-interference. One of the best gifts we can give each other is non-interference.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Hmm
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: of my teachers used to say To teach is a mistake.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Mm.
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: To not teach is a mistake. mistake are you gonna make? Right? So I know when I'm teaching, I know I'm making a mistake, but I can't help it. I'm just built this way that I like to do that stuff,
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Yes. [00:24:00] Yeah. Yeah
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: don't want to interfere with your process, but inevitably there will be some interference, and that's all right
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: And that's all right. Yeah. As you're entering deeper and deeper into the more material world, and you're making money and you're engaging with people, you're out in the world, what was your internal experience in relationship to all of that?
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: Definitely, like especially if you're coming from a very extreme monk background, no, not, no handling money, no intimate relationships, not that connected to your family, at least on a daily basis. Uh, definitely it's a shift, and your programming has to shift. It, it took a while. I, I think it took at least a minimum of, I would say two to three years become more comfortable with the money part of things, you know, asking for money, valuing my time. Um, relationships. I was so surprised that, you know, I used to practice loving-kindness [00:25:00] meditation a monk, wishing happiness for all beings. But then in a relationship, it's so, so hard to love this one being.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Yeah
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: It's, it's easy, like somebody said it nicely, I'm an Aquarian. Someone said Aquarians love humanity, but they can't stand humans.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: That's so good. Yeah.
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: I had that thing of, you know, recognizing, and mostly recognizing my own shadows, that how, uh, I can be so stubborn, and I can be so stuck up, and I can be so caught up in my wants and my needs and my desires. So, it's been lovely. I, I have, uh, I can't say it's always been easy, but it's been very educational continues to be. many times I've seen myself get into, um, I think especially, I would say four or five years ago, I think I'd got into a really It was verging on narcissism, I would say. A sense of such a strong sense of, you know, I'm creating everything. [00:26:00] You know, I'm-- It's like, you know, it's all, it's all my dream. Uh, then, and then life give, gives feedback and say, "Ah, not really," you know.
So it wa- it was a wonderful course correction, recognizing how one can exaggerate the sense of and, uh, exa- without, without really realizing it. A sense of I'm so powerful, I can create transformation. I can see through the veil. I'm here to help other people see through the veil. Um, so it's-- Uh, that's why I like to say life is my teacher, you know, more than any specific person or any specific teacher teaching.
It's life itself, and life keeps me honest.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: It does. And it, and it gives you the curriculum as well.
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: Yeah
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: to get out of the monastery, time to go into the real world. Let's go."
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: Amazing,
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Yeah.
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: yeah.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: How did you... So it must have been a matter of giving yourself permission of sorts when you were getting into the material world, meaning, you know, permission to have desi- material desires, uh, permission [00:27:00] to have sexual desires, and, and that must have been, you know, confusing at first and like, what, what do I say yes to?
What do I say no to? How do... You know, almost like a getting to know yourself all over again, I imagine.
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: So true You know, we were just having, uh, I have a initiative I've begun called The Living Room, in which I invite people, six to nine people, and we just chat. So today we were discussing contradictions within ourselves. Contradiction. And one, one thing that came out of that conversation there's, there's a-- is that it's not a problem to have contradiction.
I mean, if you're honest, we are full of con- we are all bags of contradiction, you're completely honest. That's not a problem. The problem is we, we would like to have a-- We would like it all to be fitting into some identity we would like. Like I, I want to be this peaceful, loving, wise, [00:28:00] inspirational being, but I'm not.
I'm-- I can be lazy, and I can be frustrated, and I can be stubborn, and I can be arrogant, and I can be prideful, and I can be ign- all of that, you know? Uh, but that's also-- it's, so it's and. uh, the, the real problem is not the contradiction, it is the to fit it into some of how I am and how I need to be and how I ought to be. you relax that notion, then, then life can unfold. So that's how it-- I think it's been a process of continuously, you could say, either expanding or loosening or relaxing or dissolving
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Hmm.
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: the concepts I've had about myself
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Over and over again
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: over and over again, you know? So I can be very loving and forgiving. I can also be pretty, uh, you know, stubborn about things then. And how fascinating, that's also a part of this. It's and, it's and, it's and. I like to, you know, one way I like to te- tell myself to explain all of this is, is God's high-resolution dream. [00:29:00] Can I let God have her dream? This is God's high-resolution dream. God for me is grand overall design. The grand overall design.
I don't know what it is, but here we are. And instead of let my will be done, let thy will be done. It is what it is. This always creates a sense of relaxation. I'm snapping back into the way things are as opposed to how I'd like them to be.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Yeah
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: to answer your question, there were many-- each of those things, sexuality and, uh, the whole fi- you know, charging money, going from not even touching money as a monk then charging money, and even charging a lot of money, and being flexible with it, and charging less, and sometimes not charging. sometimes feeling that I'm, if I don't charge, then people are being very casual about it. And if I do charge, then people are calculating, are, are we getting our money's worth? So the whole, the whole game of it, right? The, the whole... And sometimes not charging, people are very open to you, "Oh my God, you're so selfless and generous."
People tend to be very open when you don't charge anything. Uh, [00:30:00] and, and when you charge them, people can sometimes be calculating, but people can also show up. People will be show up on time. If they, if they paid for a session, they'll show up. They'll actually be there. I've spent money on this, right? So just working with all of that and no, no final answers, just being willing to, to lean into it is what I'd say
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Hmm. Then you began teaching more and more online and, and going to doing more in speaking gigs. You did some TED Talks. You did-- You started your YouTube channel. What, what wa- was it... What was happening inside of you there that, that was kind of wanting to be more vocal out in the world?
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: No, it was, uh, in fact, from the very beginning, there was a desire to share this. It was quite a strong desire. Uh, it-- I, I-- the way I shifted, the, the way I conceptualized it for myself is from seeking happiness to spreading happiness.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Hmm
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: I had been focused, even though spiritual journey, the monk life, had been about seeking happiness, seeking happiness. But somewhere the shift happened from what can I get to what can I give? [00:31:00] What do I bring? So the concept very much was that I want to share what I've learned. I want to share some of the things that have helped me, some of the meditative practices, some of the emotional regulation practices, some of the principles I feel I've discovered, and I felt this so precious, it's so valuable, I want to share this.
So right away, in fact, maybe within a year of leaving my monk life, I discovered Facebook. And those days, it wasn't as common as it is now to sh- use Facebook and social media to share ideas. Those days it was, a lot of people were sharing family photographs and, you know, uh, what they're eating and that kind of stuff.
So it was not that common to talk about ideas and share inspiring stuff. So very quickly, my Facebook kind of exploded, I had, you know, many, many people jo- following me there. And that led to all kinds of invitation. People would invite me all over the world and invite me to speaking gigs and invite me to their organization, invite me to their families. And very spontaneously, I just announced a session. I remember once I woke up in the morning with a dream, saying that, uh, [00:32:00] like I had a dream of a 30-day retreat. Until then, I'd never done a 30-day retreat. I'd offered five days at the most. Five, I think the 10 days was the longest I'd ever offered. I woke up in the morning, 30-day retreat.
So I put it on Facebook. I had a dream to offer a 30-day retreat, and within minutes someone said, "I've got a place where you can come." And somebody says, "I wanna join," and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. And the person who said, "Can you ho-host it at my..." He had a retreat center in the, in the Himalayas. He said, "I'm happy for you to do it at my place." I said, "Would you be willing to, you know, just take care of the organizing bit?" So I just directed everyone to him, a few months later, we had a month-long retreat in the Himalayas. The power of social media, right? Just put a, put a thought, the crowd kind of made it happen. And we had some 25 people who spent a month with me in the mountains above, we were above the clouds. It was so silent, Jonathan. The first day I went there, I said, "Do I have a problem with my ears? I'm hearing a ringing." And the person there said, "No, this is not a problem with your ears. This is the sound of silence. You
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Yes. Yes
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: the ringing [00:33:00] in your ear, you're hearing the blood flow in your ears."
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Yeah. The sound of silence is so true. It's so true
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: including the TED Talk, like I had seen some TED Talks and the thought came, "Wouldn't it be nice to give a TED Talk?" I just, it's a thought came and I let it go. literally within a week, someone attended one of my sessions said, "You know, I'm organizing a TED event in so and so place. Would you like to be a speaker?" And then one, and I think I've given four, three, at least three or four TED Talks since then. I'm invited to so many more now. They're TED, TEDx actually more than TED Talks. But the fascinating thing is that if you just... It's like you might have noticed in your life when you somehow get into the flow, then things just happen easily.
Money comes easily, friends come easily, things happen easily. Kind of get into the flow of it for some time, then of course life will give you a kick at some point.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Well, uh, 'cause it, what tends to happen is then the, the ego comes in and it's, and it wants to take credit. Like, "Look at all the things I'm creating, all the things I'm doing." Instead of realizing,
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: Yeah.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: no, no, it was you getting out of your own way that allowed for these things to actually transpire. [00:34:00] Oh, that is so good.
Yeah. Yeah. And how did, how did your teachings, how did you find your teachings evolving over time? What did you, what did it... Because obviously they were evolving with you
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: I think the center has remained pretty similar. The center has been things like we are already complete, whether we recognize it or not. Um, what we are looking for, we already have Who am I without my stories, my assumptions? What's it like to shift from my history into the mystery? I think the basic core has remained the same. Now, specific practices and the things like that, that can change, right? So I would sometimes focus more on reflective practices, sometimes more on meditation stuff, sometimes journaling stuff, sometimes more physical.
I actually did a course, 21 days, where we did, a kind of qigong kind of exercise every morning for two hours early in the morning. there's a physical aspect to it. So, like, that would change. The, the, the, the outer format of how I'm [00:35:00] expressing it would change. The inner core has remained more or less the same.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Yeah
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: shift that I've seen is I've even been questioning that inner core, the assumptions I have about things like being and presence and silent mind, I've realized that, hey, actually, even that is-- that's also a concept. That's not-- It looks like that's non-conceptual or we call unconditional.
Actually, it's not. That's also conditional. That's also a concept. That's also based on memory. So at some level, that really i- at one level, very disorienting, 'cause you thought you'd figured it out. But at another level, it's very freeing. Now you can play with all of that without getting caught up, without putting being as higher than becoming, for example, right?
Without putting any one thing higher than anything else. angry, it's okay to be angry. I don't have to be peace. Even though my name is Nityashanti, I don't have to be peaceful all the time. I can be peaceful in my non-peacefulness.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Yeah. Yeah, [00:36:00] absolutely. So do you, do you find that it is in the naming of the concept that it creates automatically the separation of that which it's, that's here? It's what it's ultimately pointing to in naming it, it, it creates the, um, sort of conceptual
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: we say spell, right? In English we say spell.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Mm-hmm.
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: When you spell it out, you cast a spell. That's what naming does. The, the act of naming, like Krish- Jiddu Krishnamurti would say when he'd point at a tree, he'd say, "You know, what's that?" And someone would say, "Oh, that's a maple tree," or, "That's whatever, banyan tree." He'd say, "Right there, you've missed it.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Yes
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: right now you, you got memory. So the moment you said banyan tree or maple tree, you didn't see the tree. In that moment, you didn't see the tree." So that's what naming does. It creates the sense of this hypnotic trance of, "I know." Actually, we don't know anything. One of my friends, Preeti Balan, she is a mindfulness coach, and she made us do an exercise where she says, "Just pick up anything." For example, I'll pick up this glass of [00:37:00] water. And she'll say, "What is this?" I'll say, "It's a glass of water." She's like, "Yeah, but what is it?" I'll say, "Yeah, this one's made out of glass and it has water."
"But what is, what is it?" So you keep ask, "But what is it?" And maybe I can say, "Okay, glass is made out of silicon," or whatever. I can, I can keep going. I can say a few more things, but at some point my knowledge will come to an end, I'll have to admit I have no idea what this is. And that can be with anything, right?
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Yeah
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: be with anything. Byron Katie had a nice way of saying it. She says, "No two people have ever met." You're like, "What are you talking about?" "I don't know. You've never met. You've only met your thoughts about them." Oh, so I've never met my mother. I've only met my thoughts about my mother. I've never met myself.
I've only met my thoughts about myself. never met myself.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Yeah
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: met life So
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Yes.
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: w- for me, the way it crystallized is to meet Jonathan without my stories, or at least [00:38:00] questioning my stories, that's really meeting Jonathan to whatever extent that's possible. I have to meet you-- To meet you, I have to disregard everything I think I know about you. Otherwise, I'm not meeting you, I'm just meeting my, my projections of you. And how hard that is, because it, it's the moment I look at you, uh, automatically I have some sense of affinity or some sense of liking or whatever it is, or disliking whatever, and j- that's in front. So just-- And, and not to fight it. It's okay, that's there, Right? And same with myself. When I look in the mirror, am I looking at myself or am I judging whatever aspect of myself and life? So meeting the other without stories is love, maybe. Meeting myself without stories, you could say is silence or meditation. Meeting life without stories. And now we are fully, now we're actually alive. Otherwise, we're just playing the tape.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: On the tape.
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: [00:39:00] We are
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Yeah. And you think about decades that people go through therapy, that go through coaching, that go through healing work, that go through being a monk, and, and in a, in a sense, all we're doing is trying to update our con- conceptual understanding of ourselves and, and change the story that has sort of lodged itself in a way in our psyche, when in reality, what, what is ul- the ultimate pointing is we are here, we are whole, we are complete here now if we are able to stay quiet.
But then we play, we play in the mater- And that, that, that is also the paradox, you know, because even, even as a teacher, the paradox in all that you're sharing is that we must then use words and concepts to point to that which is beyond words and
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: Yeah. The finger that the J-- the Japanese call it the fingers pointing to the moon. You know, there are 10 people pointing a finger at the moon, and then we go and select which is our favorite finger. And we all miss the moon that's already pointed to the moon.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and that, that's where [00:40:00] I've come to as well, is that it, it, it all, it, it, it's so funny. You get to a place where things matter and they don't matter. E- everything is, is sim- it simply is, and things are just unfolding the way they're unfolding. And we try to insert ourselves in this process and
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: Yeah
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: you know, create stories and create meaning and create direction and create purpose and, and fine, fine.
That's all fine too 'cause that's, that, that is also the play.
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: So
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: is also the dance
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: One thing I've learned to trust is there's enthusiasm, there is time and a lot of enthusiasm, I feel like sharing something, creating something, writing something, recording something, offering something, and it happens. And, and, you know, it, it takes some shape, and has to get something out of that, they get it, and of course, I get something out of that. There's some energy that builds up. [00:41:00] And I've also learned to trust the phases where nothing much is coming. Like, I don't feel like reading, I don't feel like teaching, I don't feel like talking that much, interacting that much, and there's more silence. I don't know if there's silence or there's just a sense of, you know, it's okay.
Like there's not, not being pulled in any particular direction. Eckhart Tolle said it nicely once. He said, "Acceptance, enjoyment, and enthusiasm." He, he said these are the brackets. Acceptance, middle is enjoyment, you have enthusiasm. So these are three markers of presence. other words, we can't always be enthusiastic, right?
We will sometimes be enthusiastic, we'll sometimes be in acceptance. It is what it is. And enjoyment is just like wherever you go, like there's some juice flowing, there's no sense of having to project it out into the world. So can we trust that it'll not always be enthusiasm? Sometimes I just like-- And, and I've noticed in my so-called teaching career, [00:42:00] almost every year, it's a few weeks or a few months, sometimes even as long as eight, 10 months, just stepping back.
Stepping back from all activity, the teacher role or whatever, you know, coaching, anything, like just stepping back And it takes, um... know, one thing that happened when I came on Facebook, it was a simple thing, but it really impacted me, that showed me to trust. I just began sharing stuff on Facebook, and within a few months A man from Germany contacted me and said, "Can I have your bank account details?" I said, "Why?" He said, "I love what you're doing.
I wanna something every month." So I, I didn't know him, I'd never met him, and he just began contributing $1,000 to my bank account every single month, and he kept doing it for many years And it was like, uh, and like I didn't ask for it, I-- but definitely $1,000 in India that, [00:43:00] that kind of expands. So, uh, it's more, it goes a further way. like amazing that, you know, if you just trust, don't have to push it. I like to say it this way: We will always be supported in the nick of time.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Mm-hmm.
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: In the
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Yeah
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: time in the sense that you'll not always be able to guess what's coming, when it's coming, but in the nick of time. That's
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Yeah. Yeah. If, if there's one...
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: meant to work out, it'll not work out. It's
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: It's so true.
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: fine
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: It's so true. If there's one teaching, and if anybody that has listened to this podcast has heard me say many times, it-- so many times in my own life, so many times in those that I've supported, have we found ourselves at this sort of abyss of, you know, kinda-- My, my analogy is I'm in a car going 90 miles per hour with the brakes out, not knowing if there's, uh, you know, if there's road anymore.
It's just a cliff that I see ahead of. You know, and, and my, truly my, my nervous system no longer [00:44:00] reacts to that concept, even if it fe- even if a part of my mind feels like that's what's happening.
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: Yeah
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: I've experienced over and over again in my life and others' lives as well that I've supported, how life shows up every single time in incredible ways.
Inc- even, even for those that aren't deeply connected to themselves, even for those that are kicking and screaming and yelling and, "Oh my God, oh my God, the sky's falling,"
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: So true
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: incredible things transpire every single time. Every single time. So that, that, that tells me a lot. That shows me a lot, and I really, e- every single time that happens, whether in my life or somebody else, I really take a moment to let it digest and be inside of me so that it reminds me, it connects me deeper with life and that which we're ultimately connected to
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: Well said
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Where do you find
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: before we, before we began our call, this thought came to me. Trusting our process [00:45:00] usually involves mistrusting our ideas of the process,
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Yes. Yes. Yes.
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: Yeah.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: What, what does that mean to you?
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: It means that whatever notion I may have about how it's supposed to unfold, what's supposed to come up next, how I'm supposed to be in the middle of that, can I relax around that? Can I relax around, you know Whatever concepts I have around how, how it's gonna be. Again and again, life surprises us. Surpri-- I mean, what's that nice, uh... I read this lovely quote the other day. I feel like reading it out to you It turns out that it is possible to have a universe inside you over which you have no agency. [00:46:00] It turns out that it is possible to have a universe inside you over which you have no agency except the option of noticing it
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: It's incredible. Incredible. It, it-- the journey is, the journey is, uh, quite interesting for people because in some regard, the human mind starts off i-i-in victim mindset in, in terms of powerlessness. "I have no power, and so I, I have no control." You know? And but, but it's coming from a place of deficit.
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: Hmm
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: And then, and then one transitions into, "Yeah, I c- I can create, I can do, I can make," and so there's an empowerment.
But it's interesting how it comes full circle to eventually like, "I have no power, I have no control." But
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: so
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: coming from an altogether different place.
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: I think I came up with something for that. So, life, life happens to me at the victim state. Life happens to me. Life happens by me. This is the sense of creator, the [00:47:00] sense of I'm empowered. Life happens by me. Life happens through me, more a sense of getting out of the way, channel. Life happens through me.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: And then the final stage?
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: just happens or,
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Well, li- life happens as me.
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: as me. Yes, as me,
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Yeah.
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: me,
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Yeah
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: then it happens, and then maybe even nothing happens. Nothing ever happens.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: mean, it's just life. It's just life.
Yeah
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: And I think most people who are listening to this will also find the stages in their life where it felt it's happening to me. You know, I'm, I'm a victim of my parents and the circumstances and, you know, what happened to me and the traumatic incidents. Life happened to me, then life happening by me.
You know, I-- At some point we gather ourselves up and say, you know, I'm, I-- That doesn't have to define me. I'm gonna, I'm gonna decide what's important." And actually, it, it's quite empowering. We actually feel that, wow, we can, you know, we can so-called create our reality and we can, you know, achieve our dreams. And it's-- And then we start judging those who haven't done. Come on, you know, pick yourself up, you know, you can do it. [00:48:00] But then at some point you realize that, I even... Yes, I can get what I want, do I know what I want? Or have I just borrowed these notions? Then let thy will be done, not mine. thy will be done, not mine. And then w-what is this thy will and my will? Where is the dividing line between thy will and my will? So now it m-gets more and more mysterious. What is happening? What needs to happen? I think that's the process of surrender, if you want to call it that
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the ultimate practice, letting go. Letting go. Yeah. What do you sense is emerging for you these days as far as the teachings and the teacher go?
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: I just, I completed a one-year course called A Course in Blessings with some people in my community. So one year we were meeting about once a week and practicing together. [00:49:00] And then this year I felt I want to take a-- be less in teacher mode and more in honoring the emergence. So I've come up with a new offering called Life as Practice. So it's got... It's less of a course and more of a basket of opportunities through which people can connect. So I was mentioning something called the living room. So, you know, people come together, and there's no strong sense of, you know, who's, who's facilitating it or what we're trying to achieve. It's just a gentle sense of, okay, like I give a few gentle guidelines, like, uh, maybe the first time you speak, share your name or, you know, be aware that there are other people in the room as well.
So no one's gonna tell you to stop talking, but be aware there are a few other people. And maybe just to get started, a little, little nudge of a topic. For example, the other day I gave the topic, thoughts and feelings. Should we trust them? And that's just a nudge, right? We don't have to stick to that, but that just gets people going. [00:50:00] So that's beautiful because now it's not like I'm, you know, in the teaching mode. It's like, okay, and sure, once in a while I'll share a reflection, but it's all of us together. And also once in a while, a morning practice, which I lead, or I've come up with something called, success teams, where we share a dream, and we also share an obstacle to achieving that dream. And there's something about the human mind. The moment you share your dream and an obstacle, then we say, "Okay, how can I help this guy? He's got an obstacle." And we all start thinking together, right? So these are some ideas I have, and the way I, I do it is I just follow what's feeling, what's feeling juicy.
Where, where are the enthusiasms? These are things that I'm currently somewhat enthusiastic about, so I put them out there, and it's taking shape quite nicely.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Yeah, it's beautiful. Where do you cultivate your community currently?
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: Cal-- sorry?
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Where do you cultivate your community currently? So how do people find out about your, your offerings, the things that you're doing and your-
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: don't cultivate. I-- there was a time when I've, I've actually gotten off pretty much all social media. [00:51:00] Uh, I was at, like I said, one point very active on Facebook, then Instagram, and, uh, at some level I found that one is becoming part of that entire... It's actually a thought system that it, it's, it's, it's a thought system. And yes, it's rewarding in some ways. You meet a lot of people, they'll find you, but it also drains you in many ways. Added to that I'm slightly ADHD, right? So then there's a tendency to get into all of the other things that are being offered there and happening there. That there can be a tendency to compare yourself. There can be a tendency to rather project, you know, I have to have a certain level of video quality, and I have to-- it has to look a certain way, professional or whatever. it, it-- at some level, it's very hard for it to not become, just, uh, trying to project a certain image of yourself. So a couple of two or three years back, I actually took-- came out of Facebook, came out of Instagram, um, hardly even posting on YouTube or [00:52:00] LinkedIn. So I'm not cultivating my community. So it's pretty much people who already know me, who are part of some of the WhatsApp groups I have. Once in a while I'll share a newsletter with my mailing list. So yeah, people pretty much find me if they have to, and they're probably better off if they don't.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: So but practically, when you, when you make an announcement about a new offering of sorts, it's a WhatsApp group or it's a-
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: WhatsApp. I have a few WhatsApp groups. I think the-- if I add up the people in my WhatsApp groups, it'll currently come to about 4,000 or 5,000 currently.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Ah, quite significant.
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: kind of, it's a
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Yeah
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: I don't know if everybody on WhatsApp, I don't know how many people really see the messages that are posted.
So maybe, maybe 20% of people actually see the messages. And so, and so yes, at, at one level, when I was on Instagram and Facebook, would get-- my retreat would fill up a lot faster. My events would, I would-- it would be very quick, right? If I had a, a 30 people, uh, event, maybe in a few days it's filled up. Now [00:53:00] maybe it takes, uh, two weeks to fill up.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Okay.
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: But is
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: not bad
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: price I'm willing, is that a price I'm willing to pay? And the answer is yes.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Beautiful
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: to pay that price. I'm willing to, maybe there's a third path that I'm not-- maybe, maybe you can hire someone to take care of those things, and maybe there's another way to do it as well. I don't know.
But for me, this is okay. I'm okay to... There's a kind of contentment that, that's here, there's a kind of trust that's here that, you know, those who be attracted to this. Usually people come through word of mouth. Today's call, we had a call today, and at least two of them said, "This friend of mine, this sister of mine, this cousin of mine put me in touch with you." So then it, it, it-- human beings have a tendency to share what is working for them, right? So then those who have to find me in that way organically will find.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Yeah. Yeah, totally. What inspired you to move from Pune, India to Oregon?
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: You know, this may seem funny to some people, but I am very affected by air quality. I really-- It affects me i-in, in a-- More than most things, air quality really affects me. [00:54:00] So I, at some level, it got tired. I was mostly in India for some family responsibilities and things. Uh, so the moment that got a little resolved, uh, I felt, uh, I'd like to be just in cleaner air. So I'm loving the air in Oregon. breaths. But
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Yeah
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: that, also I like, um... I l- See, I-- In the US, I'm not-- People don't know me that much, so there's less of an identity of me as a teacher or me as, you know, someone who's been a monk or whatever. So there's-- I'm just a dude. I'm just a person. And it's nice to, to just interact with people who are not kind of looking up to you or projecting something onto you. That's also nice. So all of that, and although I just, I just like, it's nice to be in the US, nice to go on long drives
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Beautiful. Beautiful. Yeah, wonderful. As we begin wrapping up this conversation, uh, for anybody that's listening that's on their own journey, journey of awakening, journey of transformation, whatever it may be, what advice, what thought, what, what can you [00:55:00] leave with, leave them with that may help them on their own journey?
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: So we use the word journey, at the same time Uh, the, place we are trying to get to Is actually here, isn't it? It's always here. So I like to say the journey is endless and the destination is here And we will keep on, you know, imagining I need to do this, achieve this, become this, learn this, unlearn this, improve this, and that's fine.
That's part of it. But again and again, one will have to snap back into what it is. we are. Uh, one of my teachers would say How do I know I need something? I have it. How do [00:56:00] I know I don't need something? I don't have it. Want what you have. What's it like to want what you have and not want what you don't have? What is troubling you? You're wanting what you don't have. That's what's creating the journey, isn't it? wanting what you don't have. You're not wanting what you do have. That's what's creating the journey. And the Buddha once talked, talked to one of his disciples. He said How much longer? You know, you've been on journey after journey. We go on outer journeys, we go on inner journeys. How much longer? How much more wandering? He said, "If you wanna go on a long journey, take a companion." Thirsty desire, thirsty desire. Next thing, next thing, next thing. Not good enough. Not, not there yet, not there yet. If you want to go-- It'll, it-- Buddha said it'll take you on the longest journey in the, in the world. [00:57:00] This after this after that after that. But if you're done with the journeys, then say goodbye to that companion. Thirsty desire, thirsty desire, endless desire. We'll have normal desires, but the sense of I'm not complete until Like, I'll have a desire at some point to have lunch and all of that. That's fine. That's natural. That's just normal stuff.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Yeah
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: we become I'm not, I'm not complete until I, whatever, give my TED Talk or write my book or become f- have a million followers, that's something we may wanna question if it's time for us to question that So that's what's coming.
Yeah.
jonathan-_1_06-17-2026_141643: Nitya, it, it was such a pleasure having this conversation with you. You embody these deeper states of being, this deeper wisdom, and I really thank you for, for sharing it with me, sharing it with us, and, and for being the person that you are in this world
nithya-shanti_1_06-17-2026_111643: Thank you, Jonathan, and thank you for creating these spaces for me and others to have these conversations. Even though we may be talking about these things, just to have a [00:58:00] space where we can kind of at our own process, uh, it does create, uh, a synthesis, creates an integration. So thank you for creating spaces like this.