Joel Monk, co-founder of Coaches Rising, shares his journey from Manchester’s DJ scene to a spiritual awakening in India, through a dark night of the soul, and into a deeper appreciation of being human. Together, we explore how presence, embodiment, and the shift from self-improvement to unfoldment can transform the way we live, relate, and coach.
At 24, Joel Monk was DJing in Manchester when he woke up one morning in tears. He realized he had lost touch with himself. Soon after, he sold his records and left for India.
In this episode of The Deep Coach, Joel joins Jonathan Hermida to explore what happened next—and the years of awakening, difficulty, and integration that have shaped how he lives and coaches today.
Joel is the co-founder of Coaches Rising, a coaching education platform that trains thousands of coaches each year and brings together leading teachers in human development and transformation. He also hosts the acclaimed Coaches Rising podcast and is a transformational coach whose clients have included media personalities, heads of banks, serial entrepreneurs, and Zen masters.
Joel shares an unexpected awakening experience in Dharamsala, the questions it left him with, and how he eventually found his way into coaching. He also speaks openly about a much more difficult period in his early forties—a dark night of the soul—and how the love of his family, support from teachers, and everyday responsibilities helped him through it.
Throughout the conversation, Joel describes how his relationship with the spiritual path has changed. He speaks about enjoying being himself, feeling more deeply, and becoming more available to the people and life around him. His ongoing integration has brought a simpler question into focus: Is he becoming more caring and generous?
Joel and Jonathan also explore how these experiences inform transformational coaching, including the shift from self-improvement to unfoldment, meeting someone without an agenda to change them, and paying attention to the relationships and environments that shape their life. They discuss the realities of running organizations while staying connected to the inspiration that brought them to this work.
⏰ Timestamps:
🔗 Connect with Joel
Website: Coaches Rising
LinkedIn: Joel Monk
Jonathan Hermida (00:08)
Well, Joel, it is so wonderful to be here with you. I've been wanting to speak with you for some time. You've been a name that has been floating in the in the coaching ether for a while, and many people that I trust and admire have been in contact with you, have been on your podcast, and we'll talk about your podcast as well. Where I like to start these conversations is understanding the context of who you were prior to.
Jonathan Hermida (00:33)
that awakening moment or that onset of or the onset of your transformational journey, which we'll get into. So there's a moment at 24 that we'll touch upon. But who would you say Joel Monk was prior to that moment?
Joel Monk (00:46)
Wow, that's a great question. many things in a way, but you know, I'd say I was I mean I could describe a little bit of the outer characteristics, you know. I was a a student, I was an artist, I was a DJ, always had a kind of love of creativity, making things, being creative, and you know, was incredibly blessed growing up.
Joel Monk (01:14)
in Blackburn, which is a very working class industrial kind of town in the north of England, to be surrounded by these incredible friends I had, like very kind of eccentric and deep and soulful friends, you know. So you know, and I think in a way I was always very sensitive, you know, a kind of very curious and you know, kind in a sense, you know. So
Joel Monk (01:44)
I just remember as a child like the this just this love of mm attuning to the play, to thing that I had in front of me, whether whether that was making a drawing or playing with my Star Wars figures and and and the joy, really, the joy of being a child.
Jonathan Hermida (02:03)
So it sounds like there there was a lot of happiness in your childhood and your upbringing.
Joel Monk (02:08)
It felt that way, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Really. I mean, we could talk about that in terms of the awakening experience, but it absolutely felt yeah, very felt very blessed. Hmm.
Jonathan Hermida (02:21)
So what
Jonathan Hermida (02:21)
happened when you were twenty four?
Joel Monk (02:26)
Well, I as I mentioned, I was DJing, I was an artist and I was just coming out of my studies and I so I was trying to making my way in the world and and you know, I was quite lucky DJing. I was playing in had a residency in a well known club night in Manchester. So I got the chance to play with you know, play to six, seven hundred people and it was great, but it was quite hedonistic and
Joel Monk (02:54)
I remember distinctly one morning just waking up and just bursting into tears, actually. It was like a quite an unusual experience. And there was just this recognition that I had lost touch with myself. And it was more of a heart recognition than my mind. And I'd been gradually in the weeks leading up to that moment, kind of attuning to my spiritual life more. I had phases of that growing up.
Joel Monk (03:23)
But I was kind of orienting back after this more kind of hedonistic period. And in that moment of bursting into tears, I just this decision came in. It wasn't a rational choice. It just came from somewhere else. And it was I decided to sell all my records and go on a pilgrimage to India. So that's what I did, yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (03:46)
Incredible. So w what was happening prior to that moment? What was the dissatisfaction that you were feeling that that catalyzed you wanting to go further into your spirituality?
Joel Monk (03:57)
I think it's it's a it's a common experience for many people. It was this growing dissatisfaction, even if I couldn't quite name exactly what it was. It was just this sense of I I there's gotta be something more to to life than this. a sense of moving out of alignment with myself, although I wouldn't have used those words. in a sense, I think I was just I was just kind of recognizing that I was suffering, that I was unhappy.
Joel Monk (04:27)
And and I think, you know, even as a child, I had this inclination towards like r just deep questions about who am I fundamentally. And so it that that just started to come back, you know, that combination of suffering with that curiosity. I was going to like a Krishna Murti meetup group in the Quaker House,
Jonathan Hermida (04:51)
Yeah.
Joel Monk (04:51)
which is kind of fascinating because I was like the youngest guy there by quite a long way.
Joel Monk (04:56)
And so that's yeah, that was what was leading up to it. I think it's very familiar for a lot of people to start to to feel that sense of suffering.
Jonathan Hermida (05:04)
Yeah. So Krishna Murt Murti was one of your outlets. What what other teachers or teachings were you drawn to at that time?
Joel Monk (05:13)
Definitely Buddhism. I mean, it it you know, this was like really at the early moments of my journey. So I didn't actually I wasn't actually reading a lot. I'd been to some meditation classes at the the Buddhist center in Manchester as well. And yeah, yeah. So it was just it was just this sense of like, you know, in a say it's it's a cliche to go on a kind of, you know, pilgrimage like that, but it was it was also not.
Joel Monk (05:43)
You know, there was this deep knowing of I want to go on this kind of adventure. And so Buddhism really spoke to me. And at that time it was like a Western Buddhist school. and we can talk about that. And so I kind of was learning, you know, about meditation and loving-kindness practice and this idea, you know, that if you really work hard at waking up.
Joel Monk (06:08)
then y you know, if you're lucky over lifetimes you might get there. So that was kind of the view that I held. I went to India and well, we can get into that 'cause a lot of things unfolded. Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (06:19)
Yeah. When you set your sights on India, did you have a plan going to India? Did you know where you wanted to be or was it just wide open?
Joel Monk (06:28)
I mean, I'm I basically knew roughly like I was like, Hey, I'm into Buddhism, so I'll go to Bodh Gaya where the Buddha got enlightened. I'll go to Dharamsala where the Dalai Lama lives, you know. So I was just kinda Yeah, you know, like following that groove. And I spent mm quite some time in Dharamsala. sorry, in in Bodh Gaya. and I went to places like Vultures Peak where, you know, the the Buddha g the there's
Joel Monk (06:56)
The Diamond Sutra, which is a very famous Buddhist text, was supposedly you know, offered to the pantheons of bodhisattvas and Buddhist disciples. And you know, that was in bandit territory. So that was kind of cool. Like they were like, Don't don't go out there, you know. When I was there, a few weeks before, a bunch of people had tried to break out some people from the local prison and stuff, you know. So it was kind of wild.
Joel Monk (07:25)
in in the in the local area. so yeah, I was mostly in in Bodgaya and and hung hanging around with a lot of Tibetans there. I just seemed to gravitate towards these Tibetans and and then went to Daramsala and had had an opening there. That's where that was where something significant happened. Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (07:47)
Yeah, can you describe that moment?
Joel Monk (07:50)
Yeah, yeah. It was it's still vivid in my mind. so I mean there's a little bit of backstory to it. I I I'll describe it, but it was I'd I'd arrived
Jonathan Hermida (07:59)
Please.
Joel Monk (07:59)
in Daramsala as, you know, this this kind of what I would call at the time like a good little Buddhist. You know, I was like, meditate hard, be diligent, and you know, you'll you'll if you're lucky, you'll, you know, one day you might wake up. And so that's what I was doing. I was meditating, I was going to the see these Tibetan teachers and
Joel Monk (08:19)
I came out of visiting the car mappa one day and these two guys were there. my friends were talking to, I didn't know them. And I went over and one of them started to talk to me and he he kind of challenged me. He was like, Why why do you want to lock yourself away and from the world and and meditate? And I for some reason I got really triggered, you know, like viscerally. I was like, and I I was like, just give me a second. So I I walked, I just said, I just need a minute. I walked off and
Joel Monk (08:48)
Again, it was one of those sliding door moments where I was like, Look, either I can get away from these guys or I can hang around with them and find out what that was. And I just knew I had to hang around with them. So they started they were traveling around India, these two guys, testing spiritual teachers. It was kind of like a bit of a weird thing to do in a way, but yeah, so they were so they started to introduce me to
Joel Monk (09:14)
like neo Advaitic ideas or like direct path teachings, like, you know, these ideas like the any effort you make only takes you further away from the truth of what you are. You know, so so I
Jonathan Hermida (09:26)
Sure. Yeah, yeah.
Joel Monk (09:27)
was I was you know read I was hearing that and I was that was disturbing to me. You know, I didn't like that. 'Cause I was like, what a wait a minute. You know?
Jonathan Hermida (09:33)
Yeah.
Joel Monk (09:36)
So I was reading these Advite Advaita teachers. I I wouldn't recommend them now, by the way. I've got
Joel Monk (09:44)
Got some views on that. But I was reading, it was the early days of the internet. So I was like searching and reading them. And and then we get to the moment you asked me about. So I I was like disturbed reading these teachings, very direct, and just kind of pulling the rug from under me. And I was just like, wow. And I walked out from this internet cafe. I was in Dharamsala and I just sat on this bench, overlooking. I mean, it was an epic view overlooking this valley.
Joel Monk (10:13)
across the mountains and just popped. Like less like y kind of sense of separation just popped and there was this luminosity, everything was very vivid and alive and and and I had just started laughing. There was I was just like in joy and and tears with laughter and it was stunning. And
Joel Monk (10:43)
Yeah, just really heartblown. And yeah, this was a kind of unitive experience that it only lasted a few hours in that in that kind of intensity. and actually what happened then was I kind of crashed the other way because as a sense of self came back, it was a very temporary opening. As this sense of self came back, then I was suddenly like, Well, now what do I do? Now who am I?
Joel Monk (11:13)
What does that mean? And so I was wrestling with all those questions and and actually very transformative questions which led to further kind of integration. So yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (11:28)
How did you begin picking up the pieces of this new identity or what you were discovering to be you in that moment?
Joel Monk (11:35)
Well, so in a sense it it kind of like it it it wore off in that, you know, in that very vivid unitive experience. it that that that did subside and then a sense of self came back in. But then of course, like I it wasn't like I just forgot about it because suddenly it it it kind of changed everything, you know? It was like, what was that? And how can I have that again? That was basically the question I had. And
Joel Monk (12:04)
These two guys, the last person they mentioned to me was this guy, Ken Wilbur. And by this point I was like, no, I don't want anything to do with them. They've kind of ruined my life. And so I went back to England
Jonathan Hermida (12:17)
Okay.
Joel Monk (12:18)
and I I'd booked this retreat in England, a Buddhist retreat, and I was meditating in this it was outside, it was kind of in nature, and I came out of the shrine tent, this meditation tent one day, and I walked along and I kicked
Joel Monk (12:33)
my foot kind of knocked something and I looked down and there was this Ken Wilbur book, No Boundaries. So I was like, my God, there's Ken Wilbur run away. the second day on the retreat, of course I saw the book again. And then the third day I saw it where I was having dinner. So I thought this is a sign and I need to check out his work. And he really
Joel Monk (12:57)
He's a for people who don't know him, many coaches and people in the field do do know him. He's a brilliant kind of philosopher, practitioner. yeah, he just kind of answered these existential questions that I was holding about the nature of self, the nature these different lineages and the emphasis on practice, and why do we practice and I it just it kind of integrated
Joel Monk (13:26)
into a phase where I felt lit up like a Christmas tree, you know, like there was a new sense of integration of that experience opened up. And it was it was a very powerful transition in my life. And I looked back at these two guys that I was kind of criticizing and then actually they, you know, they became bodhisattvas to me. They they were, you know, powerful catalysts on my journey. So yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (13:56)
Incredible. You went to India with a lot of questions, a lot of angst. You had this awakening experience, returned to England. How were you experiencing England in in this new state, in this new d unfolding that you were experiencing?
Joel Monk (14:15)
So what I would how I describe that phase was we can talk about the I I'd say there was a deeper opening that took place in my forties, which we might get to. What that really unlocked, you know, I I was about twenty five by this point, and it unlocked a kind of a phase of being really hungry to develop myself.
Joel Monk (14:42)
in in all different ways. You know, I got into Ken Wilburn integral theory. So I was fascinated in like shadow practice, developmental psychology, so cognitive practice, embodiment. I discovered coaching at that point as well. So it was a very fertile ground of of refinement and integration. But I I wouldn't class it as after that opening
Joel Monk (15:10)
there was a sense of a a a a lasting sense of awakeness. I think it was more of a
Joel Monk (15:17)
individuation maturity. and we could talk about what do I mean by I think there's these different streams in our, you know, we can look at in our journey, you know, like an awakening stream, an individuation stream and insolment. And it's felt more like it was a refinement of like who Joel was, rather than abiding in any kind of presence.
Joel Monk (15:41)
So I th this phase after India in England was it was it was full of energy and life and incredible sense of possibility and hope and and that you know, really in my thirties, like building Coaches Rising, having a particular view on what the path of awakening is. So it was all all mixed in. It was very very heady, exciting time. Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (16:07)
Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting because it sounds like you hit the ground running in your own way. And the reason I frame it in that in that way is because at least for me, when I went when I I went on my own journey out in the world and eventually came back and and as Ram Das's quote says, if you think you're enlightened, go spend a week with your family, I came back and I was kind of confronted with a lot of the stuff that needed to be sort of looked at with individuals in in my life.
Jonathan Hermida (16:35)
And and so I'm I'm curious if because you left you left a an old identity, an old life behind. Was there any of that that that you kind of came up against? Old peop you know, old friends, family that were associating you in a certain way, but you not feeling identified with that person that they were associating with?
Joel Monk (16:55)
It's a great question. And in a sense, what was interesting about that was my I I felt a calling. A dear friend of mine, but I actually actually moved countries. So that was very liberating, which it meant that suddenly I was living in Amsterdam in the Netherlands. And so I didn't I wasn't surrounded by my old friendship group.
Joel Monk (17:23)
I didn't see my family as much. And I was immersed in new communities. And so there was a an increment incredible sense of liberation and possibility. I mean, I remember like landing in Amsterdam and like walking around for the first few weeks, just feeling this joy, this just pure joy in the morning with my coffee. And it was like I feel safe here. I feel, you know, just just
Joel Monk (17:51)
I can be completely that slate is blank. So yeah, and I mean I can certainly relate as well. It's also true that
Joel Monk (18:06)
You know, I think I think what happened after that opening experience, getting into Ken Wilbur, getting into, you know, development, I was already shifting out of that old friendship group and finding a new place, you know. So I'd met a I'd met new friends already. And in fact one of those friends was the person that said, Why don't we move to Amsterdam? So I think it's you know, it it can be challenging.
Joel Monk (18:34)
But mostly it was just really exciting for me that phase. And what did I want to say? I can't remember. So yeah. Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (18:44)
More or less, what year wa was it that you moved to Amsterdam?
Joel Monk (18:48)
Two thousand and eight, yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (18:50)
Okay.
Jonathan Hermida (18:50)
So then you got into the coaching industry quite early. There wasn't a lot in in terms of it. It's not what it is today, certainly at that time. What what what were you discovering about the industry of coaching, the the modality of coaching that felt like the right modality for you? given that it it was also a a a new sort of modality for a lot of people as well.
Joel Monk (19:14)
It's great question. So what happened was I discovered coaching and I was like, this is actually, you know, this is just what I want to be and do. And you know, I I discovered Integral Coaching Canada, which is one of the coaching schools that still exists, and was deeply inspired by their work, although I never trained with them for some reason. presence-based coaching, Doug Silsby, he was someone
Joel Monk (19:42)
you know, when I read his book, it just deeply spoke to me, you know, w working in a mindful sense. And what happened around that point was I a few things just erupted very quickly for me. One was discovering a practice called circling, which came out of the Bay Area and it was a relational meditation. So it was very much about meeting in presence, in relationship.
Joel Monk (20:12)
dropping a change agenda. And in a sense with Ken Wilbright become quite it was like a very quick phase because I loved it. But me and my friends quite click it quickly said, this is like really conceptual and we're meeting all these people and it's like very intellectualized and how do you live it? So we discovered circling and it was all about meeting, you know, and sharing impact. What is it like to be in relationship with one another?
Joel Monk (20:41)
And it was wild, it was scary, it was exciting. And at the same time, I heard Thomas Hubble talking about, you know, he just brilliant, brilliant teacher speaking about speaking online in a sense. You know, what is it when word and energy become aligned? And so this this way of working presence-based coaching with Doug Sillsby, working in the present moment, bringing
Joel Monk (21:09)
bringing the coaching topic into the present moment, which is the true transformational arena for me, that very quickly kind of became what we were oriented to. Although, you know, I think at that time there were just less people speaking about the work in that way. I think a lot of the time it was seen as you know, in in the self-improvement paradigm, really, you know, which we can talk about as well. So
Jonathan Hermida (21:38)
Yeah. Yeah.
Joel Monk (21:39)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (21:40)
And how were you acquiring clients at the time or explaining coaching to the potential clients at the time?
Joel Monk (21:47)
When I was when I first got into coaching, I was twenty about twenty-six, twenty-seven. And to be honest, you know, I don't think a lot of 40 year olds want to be coached by a twenty-seven year old. I I I think that I do meet these days some some people in their twenties, in fact more and more that blow me away. I'm like, wow, you know, the the generations coming through are just
Jonathan Hermida (22:15)
Sure.
Joel Monk (22:16)
remarkable.
Jonathan Hermida (22:17)
Yeah.
Joel Monk (22:18)
so but why I'm sharing that because it actually was challenging in the beginning. You know, I I did have some clients coming in, but my my practice didn't take off until I was about thirty-four, thirty-three. the I think it was just, you know, there was a maturing taking place and the business of building a coaching practice is different than
Joel Monk (22:46)
you know, being a great coach, although I think there is an overlap. So yeah, it was tough in the beginning. but I you know, it was also fine because I was young and didn't have a family and was building coaches rising at the same time. So there was a multitude of projects in my life.
Jonathan Hermida (23:04)
Yeah, yeah. What happened at the age of forty two?
Joel Monk (23:09)
So I I basically had been practicing, you know, and building Coaches Rising and my pr my practice was deepening. Things, you know, there were there was a kind of slow burn kind of opening taking place. And at that time I was a little bit gung ho. I was having these Shaktipat transmission sessions. I was doing some pretty powerful tantric.
Joel Monk (23:37)
Meditations and I was a a father of a young child, the pandemic hit. I was reading some philosophical texts which were deconstructing my worldview, and all of that felt like it mixed to what actually happened was I started to feel my anxiety levels rising up. And then one day I went out for a walk just around my neighborhood.
Joel Monk (24:07)
I was walking down the street and then I just felt something rip like at the top of my head, like open up here, and then energy flood down. But also it just amplified this sense of fear, of anxiety. And so I rushed back to my house and I said to my wife, like something, you know, something's just happened. and I don't know what it is. And then so the next
Joel Monk (24:33)
I'd say the next three or four months was kind of a descent, like a real it felt really like a dark night of the soul experience. People use that term and I'm not using it as a badge of honor to like say I'm t you know, but it was it was brutal actually. It was it was brutal. sense of identity dissolving. I would have phases where I would sit and dissolve into a void void like experience.
Joel Monk (25:03)
burnout like it was like all in there, burnout like symptoms, sense of perception, like as if reality itself became less tangible. And so it was quite scary and so I reached out to some teachers I know because I was trying to work out what the hell was going on. I was like, is this you know what it is an a is this an a awakening experience? Is it
Joel Monk (25:33)
burnout? Is it it's not I I mean I wasn't kind of psychotic or anything, you know, I was f I was still very functional actually. so I sat with some teachers and they they both the these teachers I was meeting suggested this is an another opening taking place. And this can happen, that sometimes it happens more suddenly and that that can bring in a flooding of unprocessed material.
Joel Monk (26:03)
And that's what it felt like. So the good news is so what happened, what helped a lot was like acupuncture, body work, meeting with these teachers, being with family. And after about three or four months, then I started to experience these ex states of like fundamental well being. So that was such a relief, and
Jonathan Hermida (26:31)
I can imagine.
Joel Monk (26:32)
Yeah, it was like just sometimes it would like I would be steeped in these experiences of love and joy that lasted days. And, you know, at at points it was quite strong to the point I would be sat on the couch and I would just be saturated, you know, with these with these with these feelings. And I f this was a period where I felt
Joel Monk (27:00)
My chakras open centers opening up in my body. I'd heard people talk about chakras and energy centers in the body. And I'd always been like, well, it sounds cool, but I don't know. I've not but then I started to feel centers opening up. And you know, in a sense, I think I I I fell into some I wanna call it a traps. That's too strong of a word, but
Joel Monk (27:26)
You know, I this is very common. I was like, I've I really made it, you know, this is it. Like it's gonna be like this forever, you know. Cause I remember like waking
Jonathan Hermida (27:30)
Right, right. Yeah. Sure. Sure.
Joel Monk (27:34)
up the next day and going, like, it's still here. And it was a feeling of just complete wholeness. Like there was no
Jonathan Hermida (27:37)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Joel Monk (27:43)
all the sense of
Joel Monk (27:48)
problem, tension, existential angst are just gone. but those experiences actually began to integrate over, you know, the following months. And then I would say that the the longer journey that's been taking place since then is is a period of integration. And there's sometimes a vacillation in and out of what I would call fundamental well-being, where there's a, you know, a phase where
Joel Monk (28:17)
It's really pronounced that everything's just okay. There's this just embodied sense of well-being. And even if it's not at the foreground, then if I just stop what I'm doing and just fe it's just there. And then, you know, sometimes I'll vacillate out of that into a phase where it feels like that's gone away a bit, you know? And
Joel Monk (28:46)
And that feels like actually when more material is surfacing and wanting to be met and and then it will vacillate back again. So yeah. And I would say the shift was before that experience, I was always interested in waking up, you know, in like expansive, open awareness type practices. And then after that.
Joel Monk (29:13)
I became interested in imminence, as if it was about waking down and into the body more and more,
Jonathan Hermida (29:19)
Mm, mm.
Joel Monk (29:20)
like feeling more, being here more, enjoying, being in deeper connection and sensitivity with life.
Jonathan Hermida (29:32)
So many things to touch upon here. going back to the dark night of the soul, what was your what did what did your relationship with your with your wife, with your child, with your work look like when you were going through that period?
Joel Monk (29:47)
First of all, I mean the incredible gift of having those people in my life, you know. because there was points where I would just be sat and I would just tears would just start coming, you know, from the intensity of it all. So it was just I felt nothing but love from my wife, you know, and a child, she my child my daughter was very young then and
Joel Monk (30:17)
I have a stepson who's older, but my daughter in particular is just this sense of, yeah, I mean, you know, you've got children, it's like there's just this incredible purity and love and acceptance from children. Like they don't have those filters. So and you know, same with my work. Like Lawrence, my co-founder, is just an incredible soul who's just
Joel Monk (30:45)
deeply loving and so that was very important in that healing phase. So yeah, yeah, very important to me. Relationship at that point. I yeah, sometimes I say like, I don't know where I would be actually if I didn't have good relationships at that point.
Jonathan Hermida (31:04)
Yeah, sure. Sure. So did did that sense of I have responsibilities to tend to while you were in the midst of the Dark Knight of Soul come up? Or were you well supported by your wife and Lawrence and all those people around you to be like tend to what whatever is it is that's that's going on?
Joel Monk (31:23)
think it was a it was good it was good that I had responsibilities because it created a a routine and it was grounding. So but I also had freedom. You know, if I'd if I had been constantly having to work and to be responsible, then that would have I think disrupted the process. So there was a kind of nice flow between being able to take the time out
Joel Monk (31:52)
to feel, to to move, 'cause I moving around at that point was very good. but also, yeah, then, you know, even doing podcasts and things like that. So yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (32:05)
So you did do podcasts
Jonathan Hermida (32:06)
in that in that period of time?
Joel Monk (32:08)
I mean, I was I remember like hosting like John Vivake on a live call with a few
Jonathan Hermida (32:12)
Yeah.
Joel Monk (32:13)
several hundred people and but it was good because it it you know as a coach sometimes you know I'll be I'll be feeling part of my you know something in my process is kicked up and then I've got a coaching client and you know it actually is can be great to not to force that.
Joel Monk (32:38)
away but to actually be with another person and you know it can be good to put your attention on on different things, your energy follows that and actually lessens the intensity a bit. There's a kind of titrative process going on.
Jonathan Hermida (32:57)
Yeah. On the flip side, what was it like to try to fulfill roles and responsibilities when you were in these exalted, expansive states?
Joel Monk (33:08)
I mean it was it was great. It was it
Jonathan Hermida (33:10)
Ha ha ha
Joel Monk (33:12)
was I mean, you know, it was great to not have anything to do, to be able to really soak in them. I remember going and sitting by this lake one day and I was just like I just sat there for hours, you know, and that so that was really nice, but it was it was great because it was not a state that was taking me out of myself.
Joel Monk (33:36)
You know, I I I inf in it I felt more functional, more here, more connected. And in a that that kind of awkwardness that can be there sometimes, that that was not there in those moments. So there was just there was just a kind of delight really in in doing the things I love to do.
Jonathan Hermida (34:00)
What learnings are you currently discovering from this integration process? I mean, one of them is mentioning that you're more drawn to the more sort of grounded, embodied aspects of fundamental well-being and just being being here now more than out there and open and expansive perse perhaps. And maybe they're not there's not that dichotomy per se, but but just being more rooted, you can say. What are you learning about this this process of integration?
Joel Monk (34:30)
One of the things is simplicity. So I think as I get older I I'm I'm slowly divested of the spiritual baggage I've accumulated, notions of what waking up is and what the journey might look like and how I should be. And so that can be humbling, but there's a kind of
Joel Monk (35:00)
deepening simplicity of just being here and being and and responding to what's what's happening in my experience.
Joel Monk (35:14)
You know, I do like a a a big part of my journey has been to recognise that there are different emphasis emphases in in spiritual paths. And I don't think people often recognize that, understandably, because you just you know, why would you if you were getting into a spiritual journey and meditation or w however that looks for you, you just wouldn't know to ask these questions. But
Joel Monk (35:42)
You know, what I realized was, and I've kind of maybe forgotten your question a little bit, so I'm maybe going into the weeds, but that certain paths are more sutric, they're more renunciate. So it's kind of saying freedom from suffering will come when you transcend being human. You know, if I put it more crudely, it's like you transcend being human and
Joel Monk (36:11)
you you access a kind of experience of no-self and pure awareness. And I'm not saying those states don't have value, but I felt drawn to a a more tantric path, which was more about being in the world, engagement, enjoyment, being of service. And even this idea of no-self became less interesting to me because I what I realized was I really enjoy being me.
Joel Monk (36:41)
You know, I really I really like being me. so
Jonathan Hermida (36:42)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Joel Monk (36:46)
what it but what it is is like the me that I thought I was isn't the case either, you know, because it I don't think it takes people a lot. You don't need to meditate a lot to to recognize there isn't this independently kind of fundamentally existing sense of self, but nevertheless it's mysterious, like different jols arise in different moments. One moment I'm a father.
Joel Monk (37:10)
And one moment I'm a coach. And and and there's something really enjoyable about yeah, like developing the freedom, the fluidity to be more spontaneous, to respond with a greater range of wisdom and spontaneity, in moment by moment. That's become more of my path than you know, trying to reach some kind of state where I never suffer.
Joel Monk (37:40)
anymore. And yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (37:43)
It's interesting. I I went through a similar journey. I was also very drawn to the non-dual teachings and and and and in many ways they remain special and and true to my heart, especially Muji is is a core teacher of mine from early early on that I I still feel very drawn to. And as I hear you speaking and I'm I'm sort of reflecting on it, I I've I went through a similar sort of pathway of realizing that.
Jonathan Hermida (38:09)
I love being me. I want to be me in whatever way that's showing up moment to moment, all the various versions, and just being in this, in this sort of identity as it flows. And and there's something about non-dual teachings that is because a a big part of my motivation, especially early on, was to get out of myself, the the self that I've that that
Jonathan Hermida (38:30)
that I that I was judging, that I that felt that was filled with suffering, that was filled with judgment, that was filled with pain and hurt. I was trying to just literally not be that anymore. And so I was very drawn to the non-tool teachings because it gave me glimpses, slight experiences into a state beyond that more contracted experience of myself. And so when I when I when I
Jonathan Hermida (38:58)
When as you're speaking, I'm thinking, man, you know, the motivation and and this is not for everybody, but but you can at least I can see how the person who wants to commit suicide and the person who is also drawn to nondual teachings, they're wanting the same thing. You know, it's not i they're they're just wanting to end the suffering and and they're associating the suffering with with a sort of identity and the body and all those different things. And and and I think that there's
Jonathan Hermida (39:27)
Anyway, that's just a spontaneous thought that came up when you were you when you were sharing, because you know, ultimately if we are if we come to find presence and peace within this being that we are experiencing, each of us, that that motivation to get go beyond it isn't necessarily there.
Jonathan Hermida (39:51)
Unless there's some karmic reason that you're just drawn to like that go going the distance of full awakening, great, no problem. But but at least for most of us, I think we're drawn to be humans in this world and be the most awakened, open, honest, grounded versions of that. You know, I I I I do think the majority of humans are being are drawn to that ultimately. So, anyways, some thoughts there. I'm curious what
Joel Monk (40:16)
Hmm.
Jonathan Hermida (40:16)
what comes up for you as I share that.
Joel Monk (40:19)
think it's yeah, I I I mean I resonate with what you're sharing and I I think you know Muji's awesome. I never I watch videos of him, he's great, you know, he's there's a powerful transmission with Muji and those non-dual teachings do have a place. and I think it can be useful to because we're so identified in the world of form and we put our attention in the world that
Joel Monk (40:49)
to s take that s half step back into awareness and to recognize that's a fundamental aspect of our experience is is really, really important. So for me, those practices, the emptiness practices which I found in Sutric, and I mean they're it they're found in all types of Buddhism were useful because they they kind of br they do
Joel Monk (41:17)
break up the tendency to reify experience, you know, continually reify it. But I I think I took them too far, you know. And so I was kind of negating my experience all the time. And it can, you know, that of course in Buddhism they warn about n nihilism as, you know, one of the dead ends. And I th I I think I went down that dead end. but I think it's easy to do. And there what I discovered was there was a lot of almost like forums
Joel Monk (41:47)
People who had painful experiences coming into contact with radical non-duality. So I'm glad that people I think these days there's more education about this, and many of these non-dual teachers have actually embraced they've come they've come back from some of their more radical positions and embraced their humanity and trauma, becoming trauma informed has
Joel Monk (42:17)
Has come in and embodiment and healing. I think that's really powerful. And I think for Westerners, yeah. You know, like I I it was at Tim Freak I saw who said, like, he he was like mulling over this question would I tell my three year old daughter that that she doesn't exist, you know? And he's like, No, I wouldn't. Of course I wouldn't say that to her. Why,
Jonathan Hermida (42:33)
Right, right. Yeah, yeah.
Joel Monk (42:37)
but why would I say that to myself? You know? Because so I I I I find that very inspiring. Of course, I there is a sense
Jonathan Hermida (42:44)
Yeah.
Joel Monk (42:45)
of Joel.
Joel Monk (42:46)
I mean, I'm here is a sense of being me and and I like being in the world and enjoying the world and serving the world and so yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (42:55)
Mm.
Joel Monk (42:56)
Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (42:58)
Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (42:58)
Yeah, there there's just aspects of our relationship to our identity that are unhealthy, right? When we become overly attached to the the the the d the the the layers of our identity and you know we we hold it tightly and you know what what these teachings do help is like you said to to to soften the grip around that and and hold it lightly. Hold it lightly, allow it to express itself.
Jonathan Hermida (43:24)
in whatever spontaneous way it wants to express ourselves itself, each of us, without without that grip, because it's that grip that then produces a great degree of suffering. We're holding tight tightly to everything, who I am, what I do, how much I make, how much I have, you know, that's the thing that that is producing so much of the suffering that we experience in our in our human selves, you know. And so if we can soften that a bit,
Jonathan Hermida (43:53)
You know, then we can really, really enjoy and express and connect and and and just see, see what what life has in store for us in this lifetime,
Joel Monk (44:01)
Right.
Jonathan Hermida (44:02)
you know.
Joel Monk (44:03)
And I think there's two facets or two vectors I found really powerful here. One is like immediate practice, which it's it's very powerful. So deepening our embodiment, recognizing moment to moment when we get reactive, when something grips us, you know, when we reify it reify our experience, like this is right and wrong and and and so
Joel Monk (44:31)
we develop that capacity to notice that moment to moment and and not not not make that too much of an agenda as well, 'cause then you can get tight around that. But still th this immediate practice, but then also the integrative work, the healing that we do over a lifetime where parts of us that would come in integrate and soften and we get less we we get less and less triggered in those moments. So when those two vectors come together, I think that's
Joel Monk (44:59)
That's really powerful. And you know, one without the other can have kind of you can end up in some of the traps we've been talking about.
Jonathan Hermida (45:09)
Yeah, yeah, it's so true. You've interviewed over three hundred or or you've had over three hundred interviews and and some of them you've interviewed a couple of times. Which w which teachers, which interviews stand out to you as sort of special, unique, something that has stayed with you over time?
Joel Monk (45:30)
I have I mean I've loved being in contact with Thomas Hubble. I've had two or three conversations with him and I always find just the w the view that he holds and the presence that he is is is just really beautiful. I mean I feel I feel so blessed. I mean somebody you've had on your podcast, Nicholas Yanni and
Joel Monk (45:57)
Amy Elizabeth Fox have become dear friends. And so to share in the sense of brotherhood and sisterhood with them, you know, in our ongoing explorations has been beautiful. Patrick Connor, who's become a teacher of mine, is you know, beautifully kept on when I was asking him about these universal principles, and he didn't answer me, but then we ended up in the living experience.
Joel Monk (46:26)
Of what he wanted to talk about, you know, of what he w his teachings are about. That was a beautiful conversation for me. David White. And then I think some of the people that I really have learned from are people like Peter Hawkins, Dave Snowden, who have helped my view shift from a kind of hyper-individualized. I mean, I I don't know if I was holding that, but I think there's a
Joel Monk (46:54)
We're going through a paradigm shift right now where we u we we used to coach the individual as if they were kind of decontextualized and disconnected from the world. And there's kind of there's pitfalls to that. And we're we're kind of recognizing that people are always in contact and and in context and they're made of relationships just as much as they are an individual. And there are so people like Peter Hawkins and Dave Snowden have talked about this in a way that's
Joel Monk (47:24)
really informed me. so I'm probably forgetting some of the the the podcasts that I've done. yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (47:35)
What what do they say? How how does one shift their coaching to move away from the hyper individualism and more into the con contextual part of of their their environment?
Joel Monk (47:49)
Think that to do that is to there's there's different ways of doing it, but one is to think about what relationships so so maybe to say it like this like we can tend to locate the challenge. You know, people come to coaching often because there's a something they're s feeling stuck with, and we can tend to locate it inside the person.
Joel Monk (48:20)
or maybe another person, but it's actually more interesting to locate it in the relationship itself, which also can reduce that tendency maybe where people feel like it's su there's something with me, you know, like there's something with me that's up and I need to sort it out. And it doesn't this doesn't negate like that we have personal responsibility. Something we practice and I practice inside of Coaches Rising is to
Joel Monk (48:47)
is to bring this issue in what what in the relationship is wanting to be to be to be spoken about, to be met. So, you know, Peter Hawkins would talk about not asking what do you want to work on today as a coaching topic, but saying, what would life itself want us to explore today? And, you know, which voices need to be included in the room right now. And
Joel Monk (49:16)
I think these point to this place. It's also
Jonathan Hermida (49:19)
Okay.
Joel Monk (49:21)
kinda kind of thinking about a field, like as if we're we're if we're made of relationships and there's these governing constraints, you know, like so for example, some of the biggest shifts I got were now this integrative work we've spoken about has been incredibly powerful. But also when I looked at my calendar.
Joel Monk (49:45)
And I said, like, well, if I've got all these days blocked for these certain things, then of course I'm not gonna have time for this other thing that I really want. So so widening out the sphere of what we work on and sometimes it's micro shifts like blocking time in my calendar to work on something, which sounds kind of obvious. I mean, it may maybe this sounds obvious. This is what we do in coaching, but
Joel Monk (50:12)
I think I often was always working with the individual and the parts of them that were at play inside of a topic.
Jonathan Hermida (50:19)
So the idea of of zooming out 'cause even the questions that you the way you were orienting, what does life want us to discuss, I feel how my perspective immediately zooms out and I start, yeah, looking around, feeling into it, you know, and it and it shifts versus what do I want to get out of this session, for example.
Joel Monk (50:41)
Which is I exactly. And it's this is a an the the non dual view that I've started to come to more recently. I think I often ended a in an when I've talked about non-duality in the past it was a kind of experience of like unity or oneness. So the unity was more prevalent, but now I'm much more interested in a non duality which is diverse and includes
Joel Monk (51:11)
these different voices, you know, and that my identity can expand to include them as well. So the the, you know, Peter Hawkins will give the example of the children, the unborn children of the future, or the climate crisis, you know, the cli the the earth. But it they're not just ideas, we can actually expand our sense of self to include those perspectives. And yeah.
Joel Monk (51:40)
Not put them outside of ourselves.
Jonathan Hermida (51:42)
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Hermida (51:45)
Yeah. Yeah, it just feels like a shift that we need to be taking as a society. we're kind of going, I think, at a governmental level across the world, a lot of governments are kind of coming back in and like na hyper nationalism and you know, the self focus again and and sort of it's disregarding the the well being of those around us kind of thing and
Jonathan Hermida (52:11)
And just recognizing that, yeah, it's also the ebb ebbs and flows, right, of of life, recognizing that societies are sort of macrocosms of what's happening within us individually and and it also needs to happen that way. There's also something there that is happening for, you know, I believe the greater awakening of us of us all in some regard, you know, and and for the benefit, you know, just like any dark night of the soul happens for any of us individually, of course it's gonna happen collectively.
Jonathan Hermida (52:39)
And how do we respond to that is is an interesting question.
Joel Monk (52:43)
Yeah. Yeah, I think that's beautifully spoken. I think that's a nice way to to kind of think about what we're going through collectively right now as well. Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (52:53)
Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (52:54)
What would you say your your mission is with Coaches Rising?
Joel Monk (53:05)
So we do have our purpose, which is to to proliferate the evolution of consciousness. But my slight pause there was
Joel Monk (53:21)
Because actually I think, you know, that sounds a little abstract. I think it's really it's really about revealing the transformational encounter. it's really about what is it when two or more human beings come together and that something can come through which feels alive, which feels spontaneous.
Joel Monk (53:51)
life evolving. And I so I think that's the where it becomes more practical. I think that's what's always moved me. And I think that my wish is that coaching, the consciousness that has birthed coaching will actually proliferate into society and to friendships of virtue, as it is doing, and maybe we'll still be
Joel Monk (54:18)
the coaching profession of people who really dedicate to that craft, but that we that we you know, we just this this capacity to kind of meet and in deep intimacy and evolve together proliferates.
Jonathan Hermida (54:33)
Hmm. So you obviously have the podcast and then you have the trainings that the various trainings that you all do. What what is the underpinning not just philosophy? Because I think we got some of that here, but the the the teachings that you are most guiding students through through in your programs?
Joel Monk (54:52)
think the the big distinction I'll make is between self-improvement and unfoldment. A mentor, coach a mentor of mine, Steve March, has really articulated this very beautifully, but something I think with the work you guys are doing you're very familiar with too, but shifting away from I need to develop into something that I'm not right now, you know, that w w I'll be okay when I reach
Joel Monk (55:22)
that place and it's always
Jonathan Hermida (55:23)
Yeah.
Joel Monk (55:24)
somewhere like outside of us and some kind of future, which can actually reinforce a sense of deficiency. And I think has borne out of modernity, which views a human being in a certain way, into the enfoldment paradigm, which is, you know, which is where I I think w you guys really talk about this in your own way very beautifully. But it's like what happens when we
Joel Monk (55:49)
make deeper and deeper contact with who we are. We include more and more when we put our attention on our experience and we let it be, it begins to unfold and into into
Jonathan Hermida (56:03)
Sure.
Joel Monk (56:04)
greater depth. And you can't control that unfoldment. It's not so this idea of like closing the gap, coaching, you know, I I I don't want to completely denigrate that, but it's it's it's more coming to a place where
Joel Monk (56:18)
This longing that I feel inside of me to evolve is a place to live from,
Jonathan Hermida (56:23)
Mm.
Joel Monk (56:23)
not a destination to reach. And that there's an intelligence that comes through the coaching when we let go of trying to control or to change and just embrace what's here, which is
Jonathan Hermida (56:37)
Mm.
Joel Monk (56:38)
a real art, you know. It's like in
Jonathan Hermida (56:40)
Yeah.
Joel Monk (56:40)
a way it's a simple practice, but in another way it's
Joel Monk (56:45)
It's a lifelong practice of attunement and sensitizing our hearts and opening.
Jonathan Hermida (56:53)
what does that look like for coaches rising as an organization? I I I asked this also because th this is how we aspire to live and we we really do it is I I I think how we're leading within our organization, meaning
Jonathan Hermida (57:07)
The self-improvement versus what was the term you were saying? The unfoldment
Joel Monk (57:11)
Unfoldment, yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (57:12)
exactly. So trusting life and and listening for for what's wanting to happen is the the language we we might use. And and so when you're running an organization, obviously the self-improvement side or the you know the organizational optimization is you know, understanding the your pr PL and and and revenues and and optimizing, you know, hey, this this program is is profitable, this one isn't, kind of thing, versus the sense.
Jonathan Hermida (57:37)
the attunement. How are you as an organization leaning into that?
Joel Monk (57:43)
This is a great question. This is a whole podcast in of itself, yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (57:46)
Ha ha.
Joel Monk (57:49)
Because I'm I'm in this conversation with many of the my beloved, you know, with with Nicholas and Amy as well. It's a challenge. It's a challenge because we live in a world of you know, a cap capitalist world and there's payroll and there are conventional business practices and some of those have real wisdom to them. And so we always talked about the
Joel Monk (58:18)
right hand and left hand path, you know, like one path being yeah, what are these kind of well coded practices which we, you know, from from running businesses that we can we can build on? And then the other is what you're talking about. What is it to to listen to to a tune, to be guided by inspiration, the inspiration field to and and I think we we we do that well.
Joel Monk (58:48)
And sometimes it's a challenge. Sometimes we do it a little bit less well, you know. Sometimes so we create programs, we try to tune in to that field of inspiration and and and like feel that passion. That it's a kind of you know, you this feeling, isn't it? It's like it's that. Boom,
Jonathan Hermida (59:06)
Yeah. Yeah.
Joel Monk (59:06)
there's an inner knowing. And if you get too caught in conventional business practices, it just doesn't give space for that. So one of the principles we have in Coaches Rising is.
Joel Monk (59:18)
If that inspiration isn't there, stop. Like what let's how come? Like you know, and let's not make that wrong that it's not there, but let's let's kind of like tune in and and and see if we can tune back into it. so that's been important to us. And as a business owner, you know, I I i sometimes we don't get that perfectly right, you know. Sometimes you it's like we do get a we
Joel Monk (59:46)
we we go back more into the field of like profit and loss and and well we need a strategy for this and that and metrics and it's very enticing all of that, you know? So
Jonathan Hermida (59:59)
Yeah.
Joel Monk (01:00:00)
but usually the team will like start to vocalize it quite quickly if we go too far in that direction. They're like this some doesn't feel the same anymore.
Jonathan Hermida (01:00:09)
Yeah. And I and I think that's the biggest key of being truly attuned is that it's okay. obviously things are gonna happen yeah, in terms of w you're gonna sway one way and then the other, but if you're really truly attuned in the moment you can catch it and notice it and feel the dissonance there.
Jonathan Hermida (01:00:25)
And then once you feel that dissonance, that's where you have the opportunity to make the adjustments and come back and like, okay, what was that about? Okay, there was a little bit of fear coming into the picture. Do is this where we want to lead from? Okay. If we don't, then what where where do we want to lead from? What is wanting to happen here? What are we learning here? Right. So then it it's this continual process of checking back in, recalibrating.
Jonathan Hermida (01:00:48)
You know, and and and I think that happens for us individually and and that can happen for us organizationally, that can happen s for us societally and and the key is just remaining tuned in, tuned in as as much as possible, right?
Joel Monk (01:01:02)
I th I think I'd love to talk to you about this more because
Jonathan Hermida (01:01:05)
Yeah yeah.
Joel Monk (01:01:06)
the the the it gets complex because Coaches Rising has been around for fifteen plus years, you know, about and i it it it's we actually see Coaches Rising what's been very powerful is when we see it as has its own soul, you know, and one of the practices we've done is
Joel Monk (01:01:28)
To have people sit in the chair and vocalize Coaches Rising, give voice to coaches rising. And and yet it's also made of us, the team, you know, and actually the the participants and the wider field. This is why Peter Hawkins' questions about, you know, expanding, like what voices, what do our participants need us to be exploring, for example? You know, it widens that field. So my point here is I'm getting to is
Joel Monk (01:01:57)
then sometimes it it becomes its own entity, you know? And then what if my interests, you know, k like I might feel a certain inspiration for something. But that seems that's a kind of risky thing to do. You know, you you probab like that seems like, wow, is that gonna work? And then we've got payroll and, you know, like, we we we need to do things we think are gonna work. And so you're constantly in this dynamic of trying to navigate through that. Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (01:02:27)
It's so true. I mean, right now we're going through a complete reorganization that by the end of the year we're we're gonna be known as a different name. We're gonna go by a different name and we're gonna have a second learning center. And and and that that it just that has come from the emergence that has come from sensing and feeling into the field. And the other thing that I want to bring up here for for the audience and also for you and I, because we we touched upon it very briefly towards the end of our first conversation.
Jonathan Hermida (01:02:54)
It's something that Nicholas Yanni, that Amy Elizabeth Fox that you mentioned that we've been talking about. There's this sense, a growing sense that I think we're all feeling of collaboration, of of somehow coming together all these various organizations into some sort of collaboration. That keeps coming up. We don't know, we don't know what that means. We don't know what that's gonna look like. We don't know what we don't know anything about it. There's just a sense, a feeling that we're tapping into. And so that that's an example of.
Jonathan Hermida (01:03:23)
of this. Again, there's nothing that we need to do with it immediately. It's just something that we continue sensing into. And so I'm I'm putting that forth because I felt it towards the end when we were talking. Yeah, there's something here. I don't know what it is. But there's something here.
Joel Monk (01:03:39)
I think you speak about it really beautifully because you you there's right timing, isn't there? You you if you if we suddenly were like, okay, well, we have to collaborate. Okay, let's get if you move in the wrong way with that, you you lose touch with the frequency of that impulse, and then you start to get strategic and
Jonathan Hermida (01:04:01)
Totally.
Joel Monk (01:04:01)
it loses its life. You know, so I'm I'm committed to what we create with Coaches Rising.
Joel Monk (01:04:09)
And the podcast being imbued with that sense of life, that it feels aligned. And so yeah, you have to then trust the movement of the showing, so to speak, and the trust that the timing and will will come will come right. And there are these dynamics of like, well, how would do we monetization, you know, business, all that like the so you can always feel the kind of impulse of that and how that
Joel Monk (01:04:39)
Conforms the conversation.
Jonathan Hermida (01:04:41)
Yeah. And that again, that's why being attuned is so important. It's so it's so easy for the mind to be like, Yeah, let's collaborate. Let's have a whiteboard session. What does that look like? What are the options, you know? And that's totally not the space where this will emerge from. And and and and this then goes back to the non-dual teachings in a sense, because it what once we realize that we're connected to something greater than us that is sort of unfolding through us and with us,
Jonathan Hermida (01:05:09)
you begin to trust that more, espe and and I what I found the further I go in my journey, the more examples of its viability or or the more examples of it showing up in mysterious and incredible ways. I have so many examples in my life of it.
Jonathan Hermida (01:05:29)
you know, of of just trusting life, of letting go of of recognizing that the the me wanted something and life wanted something else and that something else was actually the better option. And so it it it it allows, it facilitates the letting go more and more the more one experiences that I've come to find it it that's the case for me at least. And and so this is where I I'm I'm in a complete state of openness and trust, recognizing that what wants to happen will happen. And
Jonathan Hermida (01:05:57)
My role is simply to get out of the way and allow for it to happen in the way that it needs to happen, kind of thing. You know?
Joel Monk (01:06:05)
Yeah, it's beautiful. Yeah, I think this is where synchronicity kind of comes in more palpably. And I I noticed that in my own life where it's like you become more prone to synchronicity. feels like these remarkable, yeah, synchronistic happenings where it's like, wow, we w I was just thinking of that this morning and
Jonathan Hermida (01:06:30)
Yeah, it's not.
Joel Monk (01:06:31)
it shows up, yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (01:06:33)
Yeah. As we start winding down this episode, for anyone anybody that's listening, they're on their own transformational journey. they're thinking about coaching, they're thinking about just their own path. What thoughts, what advice, what anecdotes, what would what can you share with them that might help them on their own journey?
Joel Monk (01:06:54)
I mean, I think everybody's path is unique. So at this at whilst in the beginning it's very helpful to, you know, maybe you feel drawn to Buddhism or Christianity or Sufism or something even completely different, that that can be very useful. I think for me, understanding we're all unique and that yeah, that that's beautiful.
Joel Monk (01:07:24)
And not trying to fit your path into one of those journeys is been really helpful. I think if you're just starting out now or you're you I think it's great. Like, cause there's really a lot of great resources around. So I'd be like, congratulations. Cause I think the world, the the world has changed even in the 20 years since I started my path. And
Joel Monk (01:07:49)
as we've talked about now, there is a lot more emphasis on embodiment and healing and trauma sensitivity. So I would just I this is my bias, but like a path that that celebrates being human and, you know, celebrates our emotions and celebrates our bodies and r recommends practices which allow one to come more deeply in contact with oneself and
Joel Monk (01:08:17)
You know, I I this is something I I wanted to share and I think it's a good place here. It's like the older I get when I started out, I like was reading Ken Wilbur and all and I was like, Whoa, just like, what do you like there's so many possibilities and I've had these exalted, altered states, and they're amazing. But the older I get and the deeper in my journey, it's like, am I becoming more compassionate? Am I becoming happier or
Joel Monk (01:08:47)
am I becoming more generous? I mean not even happier necessarily. It's like am I becoming more caring and generous? Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (01:08:56)
Yeah, it's so true. It's so true. Is there anything else that you haven't shared yet that would be helpful to share here at the end?
Joel Monk (01:09:06)
think we I think for now this is great. I just I think I just wanna express my my gratitude for you for inviting me on and for what you guys are creating and you know, the space you're holding and I just think these conversations are they're not just informative but they're they're an expression of the evolution of the field and
Joel Monk (01:09:31)
That might sound grandiose, but I don't mean it in that way. I just mean it's like this is life itself, wanting to know itself.
Jonathan Hermida (01:09:40)
It's so true. When when you and I got to meet, it it it is such a gift to run into someone who I can see as a peer that I can see, that I can be inspired from, that I can learn from. You know, you're somebody that is has walked the walk, that is doing so many things that I admire, that are helping the world to elevate the consciousness in the way that your mission is is driving towards. And you live it. You live it. You are
Jonathan Hermida (01:10:09)
true to the path, true to your path. And you are a gift. You're a gift to so many. Look how much you've done in this world. Look how how much how how how able you've been to amplify this message and reach out to so many folks. so thank you. Thank you for all the work that you've done and you do and will continue to do. And so and thank you for being on here.
Joel Monk (01:10:32)
Well, blessings to you, brother. I'm touched that you share that. Thank you.
Jonathan Hermida (01:10:36)
Yeah, you're welcome.
Joel Monk (01:10:37)
Yeah, well.