Chris Kalbfleisch shares his journey from outward success to addiction, collapse, and ultimately profound inner transformation. Through surrender, spiritual practice, and deep inner work, he discovers a peace and freedom that success alone could never provide.
Many people believe success will bring fulfillment — the career, the money, the family, the recognition. For Chris Kalbfleisch, he achieved all of it.
And then… everything collapsed.
In just 11 months, Chris went from a high-performing hedge fund executive with a thriving life to sitting in a jail cell, facing prison time. In this deeply moving conversation, Chris shares:
This is a story about awakening — not as a concept, but as a lived experience.
If you’ve ever felt stuck, lost, or quietly disconnected despite external success… this conversation is for you.
Below, you’ll find key moments from the episode to guide your listening:
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Jonathan Hermida: [00:00:00] Chris. it is such a pleasure to be here with you.
This is a conversation I've been wanting to have since you and I first connected, and I got to hear a little bit about you. where I'd like to start this conversation. So there's this moment in 2019 when you're in a jail cell and you're facing a long prison sentence, and this is really a moment that changed the rest of your life, and we're gonna get into that.
But I'm wondering, who was Chris prior to this moment, I guess the previous 10, 15, 20 years? How would you describe who Chris was during that time?
Chris Kalbfleisch: Hmm. Yeah. Start start off with an easy question, right? Uh,
Jonathan Hermida: straight into the deep end.
Chris Kalbfleisch: You know, it, it from the con, from the, from the place I stand now, which is where I'm ask, answering this question is quite honestly someone who is very asleep in their conditioning.
Uh, very much just going through the absolute conditioned motions of life they thought was the next right thing to do. Like very much do well in school, get a good job, make [00:01:00] money, acquire things, get possessions, and keep trying to accomplish more and more and more. That was pretty much my ethos, uh, for the, call it the first half of my life.
Jonathan Hermida: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Natural. I think, you know, as a young man and a man in this world, you know, that kind of mentality I think is widespread. What, how would you describe your emotional and psychological state during this time?
Chris Kalbfleisch: Very much, uh, suppressed and I'll, I'll even, I'll, I'll preface that by taking this back a little bit, if that's okay.
Of sort of the, where this, this person came from. So, and I'm gonna take us way back to when I was actually born. So, um, when I was born, my mom was 17 and my dad was 18. Uh, and they were from a small town in rural Ontario where um, having kids as teenagers out of wedlock was not, uh, was frowned upon. Um, they decided to, decided to keep me, and I was born with young parents who were sent away from their hometown to [00:02:00] My mom was sent away to finish high school in a different town at a home for unw unwed mothers.
Um, when I was born, my mom and dad decided to, to, to come together and try to become a family, but they were both teenagers. My dad went off to university and my mom followed him and completed her high school while he was there. And I was basically brought up in student dorms for, you know, my early childhood and somewhere, somewhere in the early years of my life and it's, it's all I can remember is the stress and the shame and the guilt and whatever my mom and dad were going through the time.
My mom turned to alcoholism very, very early in life. So I effectively, I, I grew up in a home with a, an alcoholic mother from as, as long as I can remember. And a, and a father who was, they were both doing their best and a father was doing their best, but he was trying to build a career, trying to provide for his family and wasn't around the home that often.
And so I, I, I, I learned within that environment, [00:03:00] um. How to suppress my emotions, how, uh, to hold back my own feelings because I'm, I'm, I'm dealing in what felt like a very unsafe environment with a, with a mother who's dealing with her own issues. Uh, putting alcohol first and where I fit in the spectrum wasn't clear.
So at a very early age, I came to believe that my needs didn't matter. Um, and if I did matter, I had to be special. I had to do something, um, extraordinary. Had to achieve, I had to be good at things. I had to, I had to accomplish things. So very, very early on I learned to suppress my feelings, maybe not even know how to feel my feelings, certainly not ask for help because no one was coming to help me.
And to survive was to, uh, achieve, to accomplish and to be good at things. And so that's, that set off an emotion, a chain reaction of how I went on to live my life pretty much for the next 49 years.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah.
Chris Kalbfleisch: With, with that, with that, with that structure in tact.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah, imagine. Imagine what was built there. [00:04:00] Yes.
From from a survival perspective for a young person in that environment. Yeah. How would you say, so what were some of those experiences that you had with your mom that you recall that were particularly difficult to experience as a young boy?
Chris Kalbfleisch: You know, if I go my, uh, I had a, I had a brother and sister that, that came into the picture, the same parents when I was 13 and 15.
But pr prior to that, you know, sort of the, the scenes I would remember is, uh, already having very young parents. So not being very different than, than my friends, but coming home from school, um, and having my mother, you know, PA passed out on the couch. Um, already intoxicated, maybe with a, a smoldering cigarette in her hand, which I had take and I'd put out.
And that was sort of a, a, a theme that I recall when I was younger, not wanting to bring friends over to the house, um, not knowing what was gonna happen when I got home. And being within that for long periods of time as my dad was off becoming a, a partner at a law firm. And then, and then afterwards at, when my [00:05:00] brother and sister came into the picture, there was a period where, you know, the drinking subsided, um.
Uh, while she was pregnant and then even after, a little after that, but it soon showed up again. And then it was this environment where, uh, I mean, gosh, I think my, as my dad and I have reflected on this now, we've, you know, we have a great relationship now. Um, but I might've been the only sane one in the house.
So I was coming home from high school to a house that was an absolute chaos and crisis where, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm collecting my, my baby sister of crawling around outside, or my mom's passed out and the kids are running around and almost being that sort of other parent in the household, well, trying to survive high school and be a teenager and all those things.
So that's sort of the scene of chaos that, that I was, that I was going through.
Jonathan Hermida: Totally, totally. And what were some of those outlets that you had, uh, in, in your teenage years that helped you to, to get away from that environment? Not just physically, but also emotionally, psychologically? What were the escapes that you had?
Chris Kalbfleisch: Yeah, and, and there weren't many when I was younger. I just, I look [00:06:00] back in, uh, public school and I was, um, uh, did have a lot of friends, uh, wasn't, wasn't physically very active, uh, sort of as a real outsider. And I, you know, I have this, you know, look back at my grade six and we, we finished grade six. We'd move off to a middle school, uh, in Toronto where I'm from.
Uh, I was like, one of three kids had to get invited to that class, that class party at the end of the year. So I very much was just inside myself and alone, sort of going through all these things. Um, that started to change when I, when I got into, um, high school. And I remember it was grade nine. And this is, this is a real pivotal point in, in my memory of the sequence of events after, uh, we're sitting in this assembly at the end of the year and.
No, started the year grade 10, started the year and everyone's getting awards from the year before. Best marks of the school, best marks and this, and I had a friend beside me who was looking at me, looking at this with awe on my face saying, oh, I bet you wish, I bet you want that to be you. And I just looked at 'em and said, that is gonna be next year.
And that became my outlet. [00:07:00] From that year on, I ended up having the, the best marks in my high school. And that went on to university and that went on to everything I did. I learned that, oh, actually I, I have an intellect that if I apply it and I work really, really hard, I can achieve something. And when I do that, I now feel special, needed, useful, and wanted.
And that became my outlet was academics. And then ultimately I wanted to apply the same thing to sports, then to my career and then to the rest of my life.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah. And that academic achievement is even more notable. Given the misdiagnosis that you mentioned, was it a teacher that gave you that, that you mentioned something that stayed with you, right?
In your youth?
Chris Kalbfleisch: Yes. That we came up in one of the, one of our, one of our chats when I was, when I was in grade one, we had, we had moved from, uh, a, a school that was in the neighborhood of where my dad went to law school in Toronto. And it has a place called, um, Jane and Finch. And it's, it's, it's not a particularly, uh, nice neighborhood.
Uh, it was, it's better at the [00:08:00] time than it is now. But the school I was at, you know, it was, it had its, it had its own pace of learning. And in kindergarten there, uh, we didn't really do reading and writing. You know, when my dad graduated and got his first job at a law firm, first thing he did was move his family to like a, a really nice neighborhood in Toronto.
And we were renting, but solely there to get, to get his son to go to a better school. So I show up at the school having come from a very different, uh, type of school system. They were already reading and writing and doing some things that were relatively advanced to me, and I didn't know how to do them.
And, uh, the teacher at the time after had given me sort of a month and a half, maybe two months of a look, uh, and informed my mother, who was I think a, you know, 22-year-old woman at the time that I was, uh, I had a learning disability and that I had to be, I'd have to be shipped off to a different school down the road that was for disabled students.
And, and my mom was like, adamant that, no, like, like this, the first she's heard about this, I'm not, I'm not learning disabled and whatnot. [00:09:00] She, um, she struck up a deal with my mother that, uh, I, mom, listen, I can, I prove to you he's not disabled. I'll have him reading by the end of Christmas vacation if you give him that break.
And the teacher said, well, of course he'll agree to that because he's got a learning disability. There's no way you're gonna do that. And I remember that Christmas holiday flashcard after flashcard, after flashcard, drilling words into me. And, you know, a testament to my mother when I got back to, um, grade one, I could, I could read and write.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah. Incredible, incredible.
Chris Kalbfleisch: Yeah. But, but I just wanna instill that sense of, um, I'm not enough. And there's something wrong with me in me.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah. That, that another, another sort of defining moment that quote unquote proves that you're not enough. Hey, look, I have a learning disability now I need to prove myself.
And it becomes insatiable. As you mentioned, you move through the years into sports, into your career. At what point does alcohol begin, start coming into the picture as an outlet for you?
Chris Kalbfleisch: Yeah, and, and it's interesting. It's wasn't, [00:10:00] it wasn't early, which, um, I guess, and I've heard this story from others too, because of my mother's alcoholism.
Uh, there was a smoker, she was a drinker. Um, I remember watching that growing up, particularly as a young teenager going, well, that's not gonna be me. I, I'm absolutely not gonna be like my mother. And so in high school, uh, I rarely drank. And maybe at my, my senior year I started to, to, to drink a little bit.
But very in check, very aware that this, this was in my mother's family. It wasn't just her. It was, uh, it was her brothers, her sisters. In her side of the family for sure. So I was very cautious about it. Um, and certainly didn't go near any kind of drugs whatsoever at that period of time when I went to university.
I guess there's a certain sense, well, I've, I've, I've made it out of high school. I don't have a problem. I've got the best, you know, best marks or top marks in the school. Here. I'm at university, I can probably let the guard down a little bit, so I started drinking a little more frequently in university.
But again, it had all these sort of rules around it. Like I wouldn't really drink during the week. It would be on, on [00:11:00] weekends. And of course it's a, you know, someone has an issue with alcoholic. I would binge drink, but everyone in my mind was binge drinking at university. So I was just going along with the crowd and it sort of continued like that through university.
And, uh, I think where that, where it became, and that became, and that became a major crutch and outlet in the sense that within the drinking now I, I was falling into my sense of who I am with, uh, my peer group and with the opposite sex. 'cause that was a slow evolution for me too from going through high school.
I found myself in terms of achievement, founding myself in sports and sort of just the end of high school I was starting to, you know, gain some, um, looks from the opposite sex. Uh, that drinking then helped a lot with, in my mind, or at least created the illusion for me that that's, uh, that was happening.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah, a bit of that social lubricant. That was helpful.
Chris Kalbfleisch: Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah. So then, so then what, you get into your career and you're moving the ranks. You get into [00:12:00] finance, correct.
Chris Kalbfleisch: Correct. Yeah. I got into, um, I started at, uh, I, I ended up getting a, I ended up getting a master's degree in statistics, uh, at university.
Um, again, I just did something. I was good at math. This was a hard degree. I'm out to prove something. So I, I, I go do one of the hardest degrees come out of that and I ended up getting into, uh, a risk management at a major Canadian bank. Quickly get promoted through the ranks up into the trading floor. Um, uh, have a seat as a, as a bond trader, uh, and a major Canadian bank in Canada.
And quickly after that, I get a job offer from a hedge fund in London. Um, and so end up and moving to London. And, and then from there, uh, end up coming to Vancouver to, uh, join a. Really successful private, um, asset manager on a partnership track, and again, continue to have an exceptional career within that organization as well.
So again, it's the, the, the roadmap I've taken from school applied to university is now fully active and, and going, [00:13:00] uh, in my, in my career.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah. So things are going well. Your career's going well. I imagine you, you met your first wife during this time. I imagine you started to have some kids during this time.
Yeah.
Chris Kalbfleisch: Yeah. Everything, you know, honestly, it's, everything's like looking like a 10 out of 10. Like, I couldn't, I could not have dreamed of a better outcome, uh, when I was younger than what was happening to me. Uh, the top of my game in my career, making more money than ever imagined. Uh, house, house in Vancouver, house in Whistler.
Uh, we're looking to build a house in the water. Um, uh, uh, a wife, three beautiful kids. I'm coaching all their sports. I'm active in the community. I'm all, all sorts of different foundations. Um, and everything from that perspective looks incredible. From the outside, it looks amazing.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah,
And from the inside.
Chris Kalbfleisch: And then from the inside, everything is amazing.
Up until somewhere in my early forties, and I can't explain, I don't know what the exact date [00:14:00] was. I don't know what the event was. I had a, I had a near death experience in around time I was 43 that maybe the catalyst, but I'm not even sure. Somewhere in my mid forties as, as my star continued to rise, something inside me started to go the opposite way.
It just didn't stall. It just started to go the opposite way. And there's just two pivotal moments that I remember. That really defined this for me. Um, the first was, uh, I think I was around 45 or six at the time. No, 45. And my, uh, the person who ran my team, uh, at work, uh, was studying to retire. And I got named to be the new, could be new, new head of the team team.
And I remember getting that, that, that's a big, that was a big promotion. And knowing that I was supposed to say no to this, knowing that that's not what you want to do. You're like, actually love your job. You love coming in, being part of the markets, doing your analysis, trading. This is a [00:15:00] management role.
This is managing people. This is the administration. This isn't for you. So of course I said yes because that, that's, because that's my, that's my pattern, right? I have to keep achieving, I have to keep doing this or I'm not gonna be someone, right. I'm not, I'm not safe unless I say yes. And the next one was shortly after that.
Um. Was being invited to join the board of board of directors, one of the, the sort of the top seven places within this organization of this firm. And once again, I remember being asked the question and, and I'm thinking, God, um, this job just isn't for me. Like, I don't, I don't really want to do this. I don't think I necessarily share all the values and outlook to the world that the rest of the board does.
I'm, I'm even surprised you're asking me. But of course, once again, I just said yes. And I think I knew that one when I said yes to that one. That was the end that, that it was, it was around the corner when something, something was gonna come to fruition with, uh, with these decisions I was making.
Jonathan Hermida: Hmm. In what way were you in, I mean, I don't know if you had such clarity at the time, but in what way might you have been [00:16:00] anticipating something?
Chris Kalbfleisch: I think just that, that I think this, around this time that internal voice is starting to speak up a little bit. And that's the only way I can describe it. Just that inner, that somewhere deep inside me is saying, you don't want to do this. You don't need to do this. In fact. Why are you even going to work anymore?
You've, you've made enough money and in a sense, that inner voice saying you're going to a job that you, you, you've stopped loving. You may not even like it anymore for money. You don't need to buy things, money you don't need to buy, things you don't need. Why are you doing this? And I had no answer for it, except that's all I know how to do.
And I kept following that, that program that I had been following up until that point.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah. And so then at what ti at what point does alcohol start creeping in?
Chris Kalbfleisch: Yeah. And that's, and, and there, it's, that's, that's the setup, the setup for that. And so it's around that, it's around that time, particularly in my, uh, my mid forties, maybe early forties where, uh, some of those rules that I had around okay, just, just drinking [00:17:00] on, on weekends, um, dinner parties and things like that started creeping into.
Uh, drinking a little bit more during the week. Um, drugs that had not, had not entered my life in any way, shape or form, always in my late, late twenties. Um, that had been something that was a once in a while thing maybe on the odd boy strip started to be okay, well once a month and then to, then to once a week.
And then somewhere in my sort of late forties it was, uh, virtually daily drinking and, and using drugs of some sort and hiding it from everybody. Just nobody knew the extent of, of my usage. Just I was pretty good at hiding it for a long period of time. But that very much became my coping mechanism to bridge this, this widening gap between what was happening on the outside, which I was getting tons of praises and accolades and congratulations for being honored by everybody and what was happening on the inside,
Jonathan Hermida: What, what's interesting about everything that you've been been sharing, Chris, is that you, you did [00:18:00] reach a sort of pinnacle of life that so many strive for, you know, to have the wife, the kids, the, the job, the money, the, the homes, the material success. But what I'm, what I'm hearing and what you've been sharing is that it was not built on any solid foundation.
It was built on a bit of, uh, house of cards, you can say. And so then well also, and, and correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm curious here in, in terms of what I'm hearing, is that. that feeling of not being good enough, especially when you reached the pinnacle, Hey, this is as like, I can't be better than I am now.
Now I need to self-sabotage to prove that I'm not good enough and destroy the success that I had accumulated up until that point. is that fair in terms of what might have been happening very deep in the recesses of your psyche there and what and how things started to turn around for you?
Chris Kalbfleisch: Yeah, I think, I think that's absolutely bang on Nikki. You can, you know, we, we get to the other side, we look back and you just, you watch it unfold like a movie. And that's exactly what was [00:19:00] happening. Um, you know, doing like the most inexplicable things that one does in addiction or alcoholism, like, you know, showing up, do, doing, you know, doing narcotics or drinking at work, drinking in the parking lot of my car.
Um, missing work, uh, doing crazy things like having, you know, drugs delivered to my house in the middle of the night on a Tuesday. Like not just insanity, self-sabotage. Like there was no, there's no good ending to what I was doing. And it would've been obvious to anyone that wasn't caught in the madness of it like I was at the time.
And I look back at it and it's hard to believe it was me, but absolutely.
Jonathan Hermida: And when you were in it, was there any self-awareness at all of like, what am I doing? Or was it just like, yo, let's go for this ride, whatever this ride might be?
Chris Kalbfleisch: No, it's the, uh, it's the insanity of it all. Where there's, there's, there's glimpse.
There's glimpses of, like, there's a recognition that at, in the, like in the moment or after the moment of reverse is what you're doing is [00:20:00] not the right thing. But this voice keeps convincing you, well, you'll stop tomorrow. Tomorrow will be the day that this all comes. In the end, you'll get back on track.
And then, and then that day never comes. But that lens of absolute, uh, self-sabotage is, is correct. And it's almost like, is that that higher self within me is rising up and saying, listen, I tried, I tried to send you all these messages that stop saying yes to these decisions that more money's not gonna make you happy.
More title's not gonna make you happy. You're not listening. So we're gonna do this the hard way. We're, we're gonna, we're gonna step in there and we're going to create a situation that's so dire that happens so fast that you're gonna have to make a change.
Jonathan Hermida: hmm.
When did people start to notice? I.
Chris Kalbfleisch: Probably around, you know, I, I, I think if you'd asked, asked my ex-wife and, and business partners probably, probably somewhere around 2018, you know, people [00:21:00] could, could tell that there was something going on with, there's something going on with me. Um, that, you know, uh, I, I was, was not fully present. I was distracted.
I was more irritable, more discontent. Uh, there's a bunch of stuff going on at home, you know, I have teenage children. They're all going through their, their various things. I think people were attributing to that. I was probably playing it up to that too as I was trying to deflect from what was going on with me.
But it really probably picked up in a material way for me. In terms of the external part, seeing it was the end of 2018. Um, our family just came back from a, we had a eight week sabbatical. It was one of, one of the nice things about the partnership and we got back in September in 2018 and I'd actually thought that I had been away for that eight weeks, had been.
Free from the environment where I was using and I thought I was gonna come back and that was gonna be the reset. I'd be okay. And it didn't happen that way. I just came back and everything got, everything sped up. Uh, all the, all the, um, the poor [00:22:00] coping mechanisms picked up pace and uh, things really started falling apart at home.
Within this, within this alcoholic addiction dynamic of anyone's been in it, there is so much denial and so much lack of self-awareness, one of the, one of the defense mechanisms to go and blame the environment around you. So I was in this place where I'm blaming my wife and my family for everything that was going wrong.
So I ended up leaving my family, uh, at the start of 2019 as a solution to what's going on with me. Uh, and of course everything just got materially worse once I did that. It got so, so much so that it was noticed at work that, uh, the managing partner, who is the kindest man who's, who's familiar with mental health issues, things like that, uh, he came up to me, said you.
You, we can tell you're struggling. We know you're trying, but I think you need to take a la leave of absence if we're gonna offer that to you, do you wanna take it? And I, and I grabbed onto that again, thinking that once I got away from work, which must be the problem, that then I'll [00:23:00] have this time to get better.
And of course, without a plan, without a self-awareness of what was actually happening beneath the surface, that, you know, I was dealing with these, uh, issues of not being enough and overachievement, whatnot, it just got worse. And so it was, um, it was May, 2019 that I, I took a leave of absence and that's when I, that's when my journey of healing.
At least began, I, I went to a place called Maribel in the United States, which is a, uh, it's like a wellness center. Uh, did a bunch of work there. Ended up going to my first treatment facility for, for alcohol in, uh, June of that year. And then ultimately as where the, our session started, went from the jail cell to my final treatment center in, uh, December of 2019.
But to put it in the context of what that year looked like at the start of 2019, January 1st, 2019, um, married three beautiful [00:24:00] children, uh, running a big team on the board of directors, coaching all sorts of sports and all these various foundations. Uh. 11 months later, I have no job. Uh, I'm estranged from my family.
I really don't have any friends left in my life. And I'm sitting in a jail cell, uh, facing a long, long prison sentence. If, if things were to play out in the worst possible way, all in 11 months,
Jonathan Hermida: unbelievable, unbelievable life, forcing you to reckon with the decisions and everything that was happening inside, what led you to that jail cell?
Chris Kalbfleisch: I ended up, I ended up from, uh, from the amount of, amount of alcohol and drugs I was consuming, particularly in that last several months, I ended up in a pretty deep psychosis. And in within that, in that psychosis, I ended up assaulting somebody. And that's the, you know, that's, that's the event that got me to the place where I could have the realization that, [00:25:00] um, I'm not okay.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah.
Chris Kalbfleisch: Like, I think it was the first time I really got to the place where like, if this is, I'm not okay. Uh, I'm the problem. I'm the common factor in everything going wrong in my life, and it's me, and it's my thinking, my approach, my ideas that keep taking me further down this hole. And I think I have to let go of the idea, um, that I have the solution.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah. You mentioned to me that a high, a high in your life, a high in your journey was standing across from the judge awaiting that long prison sentence. Yeah. What made that a high point for, for you and your journey?
Chris Kalbfleisch: So, because of, because all this is happening in, around the time of COVID, so I go away to a treatment center in, um. Started 2019 and I, and I spent three months there. Three amazing months. Have a spirits, have beginning of a spiritual awaiting there. Um, and I come out in [00:26:00] March, 2019 when everything locks down, including all the courts.
And so what would've been a normally, you know, six month process by which you get booked and you come out and you sort of, and you and you have your trial. Mine took a year and a half. So in that, in that, that year and a half period, um, I had. Gone through treatment, I had become a Kundalini yoga teacher. I had done coaching courses.
I had, I had done a lot of transformational work in a very, very short period of time. And I, I, I had created this awareness by the time I've got in front of the judge, you know, the options were, uh, going to a provincial prison house arrest, uh, and, and everything in between. I'd gone to this place where it just didn't really matter anymore because whatever, whatever the path was, it was God's path.
I knew I was on God's path. I knew everything had happened up to the point, it was meant to happen the way it was supposed to happen, and that God would take me to where I was going to be most useful. And I remember having that feeling, [00:27:00] looking at the judge, going, it doesn't matter what you say, it's perfect.
And, and I will, wherever I go, I'll continue the work I'm doing and I'll continue helping others. On that path. And in that moment, I just realized I'm not afraid anymore. I'm not, I'm not afraid if anything happens, and now I have my freedom. So the, the outcome of this sort of year and a half year and learned that year and eight month journey was, I'd gone through this trial, but come out not afraid.
Jonathan Hermida: Liberation.
Chris Kalbfleisch: Yeah. Complete liberation where I was indifferent to the outcomes.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah. Yeah. What were some of those, uh, moments or awakenings that you had throughout that year and a half that were pivotal? What were some of those insights? Uh,
Chris Kalbfleisch: you know, the, the, the first, the, the biggest one was, um, the first day when I ended up in a, uh, in a treatment center. This the second time, but this time I'm ready. This time I've surrendered, like I'm, this [00:28:00] time I'm really like, Chris is the problem here. Chris isn't the solution. So I, I'm, um, uh, I'm, I'm in this, I'm in this place where I'm recognizing the, the tear, the horror of my situation.
And I get down on my, I remember finally going through the processing. I had a welcome package, and I get down to my room where it's finally quiet. Um, it's been, I've been surrounded by people in events up until this point in time. And I, and I dig down into my, into my, um, bag and I pull up this book called The Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous.
I've, I've never read this book before. I mean, like any good alcoholic as I've avoided this book for 49 years, right? And at that point in time, I'm just sitting there thinking, um. I don't know what to do with my life anymore because whatever, whatever I do, I keep hurting people. I keep hurting my kids. I keep, I keep hurting my, my wife.
I keep hurting my friends. I keep hurting my employees, my employees. Every decision I make involves hurting more people. Um, you know, do I, is there really any point in going [00:29:00] on anymore? And the thing that pulled me back from that line of thinking is I can't do that to my kids. Like no matter what happens, that's the thing you, I can't leave my kids with.
So I have to find a way out of this somehow, um, for the sake of my kids. But I, but I don't know how, and I'm really lost and I just started reading this book and I'm in a bit of a psychosis still. Like I'm still, uh, up, up is down, down is up. I'm having all these wild thoughts about who's after me and a bit of a schizophrenic type type mindset.
And I start reading this book that was written in 1939 and after I got about. 30 pages in, I am like convincing myself that someone's played a joke on me. They've put a book in my bag that's written in 1930s language, but it's about me who's done this. And I, I literally go and check my roommates, he's not there.
I go check his book to make sure it's the same. And it was, and I said, okay, no, this is the thing. And I read this book and it's like, after reading the first a hundred pages, I just put it down. I'm like, I'm just, I'm gonna be [00:30:00] okay. Yeah. Like this book is literally talking to me right now. It, it actually, the stories in this book, the way it presents alcoholism, is exactly what's going on with me.
Nobody's expressed it to me before. No one has seemed to understand anything I'm thinking or feeling, except this book seems to do it. And this book just says, if I fully surrender and just follow the steps, it se it suggests, do what the people around me and this fellowship tell me to do. I'm gonna be okay.
And I knew I was gonna be okay at that point in time.
Jonathan Hermida: Hmm.
Chris Kalbfleisch: I had no doubt. And that, that is, I've never had a drink since that day.
Jonathan Hermida: It makes so much sense that insight that, because it seems like that in, in reading that book, it's the first time in your life where you really have the experience that nothing is wrong with me and that I will be okay.
Chris Kalbfleisch: Yes.
Jonathan Hermida: Like the actual lived experience of it. Not a, not a thought, not a, not a hope, not a mantra, but a lived experience that I'm okay and nothing is wrong with me.
Chris Kalbfleisch: Yeah. [00:31:00] Yeah. The, the president of the book is effectively suggesting that behind most alcoholism is, uh, an if someone that has, um, an egomaniac with an inferiority complex, a deep seated belief are not enough and has, and has to move to putting on all these masks to be the big shot in their life, and then eventually it falls down and fails, and then they're fully exposed and, and that's when the healing begins.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah. And it, you, you found. The ground, you found the foundation upon which to build from, from the ashes, from the cru, from the crumbled foundation that you had on top of that, you know, that's, that's what's powerful about that.
Chris Kalbfleisch: Yeah. The full place of powerlessness, the full surrender that I had ironically done just before I'd actually read the book and the first step is admit your powerless.
And I had actually done that before reading it. And there's another pivotal piece to this story too, which is again, this is, this is the hand of the divine and the hand of God that comes into my life in and around this is happening. So I [00:32:00] go away. Um. I go back to this wellness center called ML again in, uh, I believe it's September, October of 2019.
I, I, I've elected not to go back to work now for my leave of absence because I simply couldn't get sober. And so I retired, you know, air quotes retired. Um, but I was lost. I had no idea, like I, up until that point, I had defined myself completely by my career and my successes, and now that's gone.
Everything that I define myself, identity was falling away. So I go back to this, this, uh, place, forget some guidance, and it was my last day there. I, um, I, I reconnected with one of the. One of the teachers or coaches, um, at the center called named Taj Paul, and she's a French psychic who, I mean, the last time I was there had a profound impact on me just because she could, she was able to tell me what was going on in my life and with my kids and my parents, and a really, you know, new way for me, you know, I was, I was not into these practices, but I was open to it.
I, I [00:33:00] remember walking back in this, my last meeting of this trip, and she looks at me and she just goes, I remember you. She closes her eyes and she, she goes, you know, your central nervous system's spinning like a top. Close her eyes again and says, you're sitting on a pile of dynamite and it's about to go off and there's nothing you can do to stop it.
And I'm thinking, it's not going very well. So, and she goes and she goes, whatcha afraid of? And I said, well, I'm afraid of, I guess I thought about it. I said, there's too many things I'm afraid of, like losing all, all my, my, my wealth and my financial assets. And she goes, no, you're fine. That's not gonna happen.
I said, I'm afraid of losing custody of my kids, which was my biggest fear at the time. And she goes, that's gonna happen. There's nothing you do to stop that. And then she stops and she goes, but I'm telling you right now, like she closed her eyes, said, I, I look at your future. I see you as being this life coach that's actually helping a tremendous number of people.
Um. You have to do one thing, you have to do kini yoga. Wow. For any of this to happen. [00:34:00] So two things there. One, I had no idea what a life coach was. I'd never even heard the term before. Um, and the second thing was I'd never done yoga before I was 49. I'd never done any yoga. In fact, uh, I had a very little understanding of what yoga was, yoga.
But sure enough, I mean this, this woman seems serious. I was believing her and I was actually out of options. So I came back to Vancouver that very next day, uh, looked up Kundalini yoga and there happened to be a center, um, in town that was like this called Yoga West, that all they do is Kundalini yoga.
And I went there, the very first opportunity I had, and I walk into this room. Thinking it's gonna be a bunch of, you know, people with Lululemon clothes on and mats. And it was not, it was very different. It was, people had turbans on and everyone's dressed in white. There's strange music and I go through the strangest hour and a half practice I've ever been, but something happened in it.
I had this emotional release that I had never felt in my life. I felt, I felt in a way that I'd not felt before. And I'm sitting, I'm sitting in a pool of tears [00:35:00] at the end of this class that it's involved, breath work and movement, meditation. And the teacher gently walks up to me, puts her hand on my shoulder and just says, I can tell you've had a profound experience.
Um. This practice is transformative. I've gone through my own journey, and I'll tell you, doing the teacher's training for this particular practice, um, transformed my life and I think you'd benefit for it. And ironically, it starts today. It starts tonight. It's eight months long. It's, it's $3,000. It's 300 hours.
And I'm like, I've never done yoga before. She doesn't know this either. And, but I've been sent here by a French psychic from Arizona that says, if I don't do this, my life's doomed. So I said, I guess I'm signing up for this. And so, so I signed up that day and I started this teacher's training. And of course I'm still in active addiction, so it's like you can sort of see where this is about to go.
I don't, I have to, I have to. Exit it at the end of November, shortly before everything else happens. But I got enough out of [00:36:00] that month in terms of learning what a daily practice looks like. And there is this practice within it called the Aquarium sadana, which is what the Kundalini yogas do every morning.
Uh, alarm goes off at three 30, at four o'clock, you have your cold shower at four o'clock. Prayer then moves into yoga, then moves into an hour and seven minute meditation. It winds up at six 30. And in this book, and the, the textbook I have, which sits right here beside me right now, it says, it said, if you do this every day for 90 days, it will change your brain.
And so I held onto that. So I got to this treatment center, and I'm in psychosis. I've surrendered, I'm gonna, I'm gonna follow the steps, but I'm also have this mindset that, listen, I'm here. I have this practice in the back of my head, it said it'll change my brain. My brain needs changing. What do I have to lose?
And the one superpower I've always had my entire life is the ability to commit and be disciplined. And so for seven months straight, I got up at three 30 in the morning, had [00:37:00] that cold shower and did that K yoga practice, and went through transformative experience after transformative experience over that time period and kept it up for another year after that.
But just not every day, like five days a week.
Jonathan Hermida: So you incredible. So then you did one class, got into the tea, uh, yoga teacher training, got one month into it, but didn't complete it at that time.
Chris Kalbfleisch: Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida: Then you went off into treatment, did the practice.
Chris Kalbfleisch: Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah. Unbelievable. Unbelievable.
Chris Kalbfleisch: Every day and every day, like I did a number of hours, I did of kini yoga on my own.
Sort of like in this treatment center? Yeah. Um, in the dark. Like in fact there's, because of the setup of it, none of the walls particularly, um, soundproof. And part of the, the meditations is chanting. And so I had to make a deal with the, the, the people who operated. I could do the, I could do the yoga in my room, but to do this chanting was tricky.
Well, they had this little phone room in the main building that was soundproofed. So I'd go in there with my little mat and all I could do is basically sit [00:38:00] cross-legged in this soundproof phone booth, and I would do my chanting every morning. So it was just this, if you just look at it, it's just this crazy wild story through this thing.
And I was having this, I look at it this way, it's this. Um, program of, um, the 12 steps. It's very much a mental top down process of, um, of getting at what the limiting beliefs are, what's your fears, how to unwind them, how to connect, uh, to a higher power simultaneously. I was doing this mystic, bottom up Kundalini practice.
I didn't know how it worked. I didn't care. I'm chanting with my eyes closed in a language I didn't understand, but it doesn't matter. It's working. And it just had those two things going together for a prolonged period of time and this incredible transformation just unfolded.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah. How, how were you experiencing yourself after that year and a half of practice and, and moving into this work?
Chris Kalbfleisch: Hmm.
[00:39:00] Like I'm, I'm almost welling up with tears and, and as I say this, it's like a sense of peace and stillness that I didn't know existed and, and a sense of, of being connected with my myself, um, in a profound way that this sort of, this need to, to be someone or to achieve someone. It was just really sort of just sliding away, just inner peace is the best way I can describe it.
And not only peace with myself, but like just yearning for peace with everyone around me. That's was really the only thing that was, that was, that mattered to me. Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida: What was the verdict finally of the decision in, in court?
Chris Kalbfleisch: It was, uh, it was, I ended up doing the one year of house arrest and, uh, a year of, um, uh, curfew.
Jonathan Hermida: Okay.
Chris Kalbfleisch: Which, which, again, it's like, it, it was almost divinely inspired in the sense that, um, this is also, also during sort of a co, a COVID period as [00:40:00] well, where things were quite shut down. And I had recently bought, uh, a place on Bowen Island that I was in the process of renovating. And that place on Bowen Island had a little yoga studio unit where I would do my yoga every day.
And so this was, once again, the divine send me to this place to continue to cement my transformative practices. My way of being. And so in, in a, in a sense, I was, I was, uh, sentenced to a, a year of transformation.
Jonathan Hermida: It's so true. Yeah. Like, here you go. Just work on yourself.
You have.
Chris Kalbfleisch: And in, in all of this, in this period of like a year and a half before, then, a year after, in particular, this two and a half year period, uh, I went back to school.
I did a, a master's in psychology. Uh, I took some coaching courses. Uh, uh, I ended up doing Mastery with the, with the Deep Coaching Institute. Uh, started a coaching business, started the yoga business, um, started the Healing Center. Uh, all of this happened in this period of transformation. And again, coming, coming out of it, it's just like that was the, [00:41:00] you know, I was put through the, the test of the hardest time in my life and the most beautiful thing.
Emerged out of it. Like it could only have been for me.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah. Yeah. I hope listeners are listening to this. It's the transformational journey is not only incr incredible, but it is real. It is a real thing that we go on, embark on, you know, where we reach this point and, and everybody's journey looks very different.
Not everybody hits the rock bottom that you hit necessarily, or have to, but very often life forces us into this path in some way because our conscious mind is not gonna take us there necessarily, not for most people. And so then what we think is a terrible thing that is happening where our life is falling apart is actually the biggest blessing in retrospect.
But it's very hard to understand that in the moment. For sure.
Chris Kalbfleisch: Yeah, and it's a, it's a paradox that I use all the time. It's like, you know, the going through that bottom was the, the best thing that ever [00:42:00] happened to me, but I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy because it, it's so painful and so hard at the time, and so many times in there you don't, you don't see words leading.
But when looking back with hindsight, with this, particularly with the lens of transformation on like a lens of the caterpillar metamorphosis or the hero's journey, you look back and you see, oh yeah, I see why it had to be like that.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah,
Chris Kalbfleisch: I, I get it. If there was any, if there was any wiggle room, I would've probably taken it, my mind would've gotten involved and tried to wiggle away out if, if I hadn't, hadn't, you know, lost connection with my kids or, which was the main motivator for me to get healthy was I had to get them back in my life.
If that hadn't been there, I probably would've found a way out of it. Like for me, I had to get this place of absolute annihilation for the mind to fully give up and fully surrender and say. You're done. And to allow that other thing to emerge, at least, at least in my path, I needed that. Others may not, but I understand that mental trap and survival [00:43:00] mechanism was so strong in me, so solidified that that's probably the only way I was gonna get free of it.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah. And Kundalini in the 12 step program were catalysts to support you through this journey. Yeah. And, and speaking of this 12 step journey, what was the making amends process like for you then during this process when you really started to reach out to those people whom you caused harm towards?
Chris Kalbfleisch: Yeah, it's the, I mean the, the entire 12 step particularly that, that process of, um, of making amends and taking responsibility and ownership and, and for the things in your life and being honest with people, it is quite honestly the most freeing thing in the world because implicit in that is you're making amends you your.
Um, admitting you're wrongs and things you've done, but you're implicitly forgiving them too for all the things they've done. Like, how could you not? Right. And so it, it teaches us ability to forgive everyone around you and then ultimately the end of it to forgive yourself. Yeah. That's the [00:44:00] real takeaway at the end of this whole thing.
Um, if you've done it successfully, and I'll, I'll certainly speak for myself and others that I know that would, would qualify this, you start to deliver resentment free, you start not to judge and you start to develop empathy, forgiveness for everybody, for everything because again, how can you not, having been having taken the road we've taken to not forgive other people for the mis for the things you're doing.
Jonathan Hermida: Hmm. Who was the most difficult person to reach out to and speak with?
Chris Kalbfleisch: Well, there's, it's still undone. It's still, we'll still wait to be seen, but my, my ex-wife and my three kids, I still don't have, uh, meaningful contact with them. So it's, it's the still the amens. That are, are yet to be made that have been the hardest amends.
'cause they're the ones I've wanted to do the most from the very first day. And, you know, as fate would have it, they're the ones that are gonna come last. Um, so that's been the hardest part of this journey is this six and a half year of, uh, of no real contact with my, with my [00:45:00] children. And I was a very, very active father and very involved father.
Um, right now the process is, I, I write them letters, um, on a high frequency basis that, that go through a family counselor, but it's all this one way communication. So those, those are the hardest ones and they're yet to happen, but, you know, they'll happen when they're ready.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah.
Chris Kalbfleisch: You know, they'll happen on God's time.
Jonathan Hermida: Even the way you're communicating about it shows a certain piece and acceptance. It, it, it really speaks to the, the, the, the, the profundity of the journey that you've been on and the depths that you've been able to tap into in order to speak to this, in this way. You know, it's very notable.
Chris Kalbfleisch: Well, thank you.
Yeah. And, and just, I don't want to evade your other question too, which is, which ones are the hardest ones to make? And honestly, like everyone e every single one that I thought was gonna be really hard, um, probably 'cause I was coming from a place of o honest authenticity and earnestness that I was severely, sorry.
Um, I was met with so much love by, by virtually everybody. And for those, [00:46:00] for those who would are unable to meet me way because of what's going on in their lives. Um, there was sort of a thank you and, you know, I think it's best we part ways right now, but even that was okay.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah.
W
Was your mom around during this time?
Chris Kalbfleisch: No. My mom passed away from alcoholism, uh, uh, complications with alcoholism in, uh, 1999.
Jonathan Hermida: 1999. Okay. So some time ago. Yeah.
Chris Kalbfleisch: Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida: How did, how did going through this journey help you to relate and see her in a different way?
Chris Kalbfleisch: Mm-hmm. Oh man. It was like, uh. She was, it's interesting. She was my, my first amends, uh, in a sense that happened before I, I got sober myself, uh, again, going back to this, um, this place called Maryville.
The first time I went, uh, again, I was, I was looking for solutions and looking for answers to what was going on with me. You know, anything, anything except facing my drug and alcohol issue at the time is what I was looking for. So I was seeing, I was seeing shaman and crystal workers, [00:47:00] psychics, like, you name it, I was gonna go see them all.
It was open-minded, right? Um, and I ended up, uh, doing a session with a, uh, a shaman, um, called Path, the Jaguar. And in this session, uh, all of a sudden the, the woman who's running goes, oh my God, someone just entered the room. She's screaming and she's shouting. She's, she's apologizing for the smoke in your lungs.
And, you know, to cut to the story short, it's, it's my, it's the, it's my spirit of my mother. It's. Who's in explicitly come into this room and saying to through this medium, saying, she's been trying to get me to a place like this for 20 years, and she's passed away to tell me the things she wants to tell me and to apologize.
And so that was, that was wild because I came outta that thing thinking that's, that's, you know, the most, the craziest thing is, okay, there really is a spirit world here because this, this was in explicitly my mother that entered the room. The next day I go to another shaman and in this process, all of a sudden he starts sounding differently.
I look at him and his eyes are rolled back and I'm now having a [00:48:00] conversation with the spirit of my mother who then been to take me through how she was. She was shamed her entire life, af even after she had me, she was sent away to this different town, sent away to school even after my, her and my dad became successful.
Lawyers and business executives built a life himself. They were still shamed by everybody, and ultimately that's what led her to drinking. And in her drinking, nobody ever helped her. Everyone just watched this poor girl drink herself to death without, without stepping in or intervening. And in that moment, I realized my perspective on this entire situation where I resented her, was angry for her, blamed her was completely wrong, and all I could do was forgive her and love her in the most profound way.
And so that's, that's how I, I, that's how I look at my mother now, is this poor young woman that absolutely did her best. She was so scared, so frightened, and she probably, she probably passed away knowing that, that she didn't have the relationship that she wanted with her [00:49:00] kids. And, you know, hopefully she can, she can find peace in it now, wherever she is.
I know I do.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah. I mean, healing, the healing journey is so beautiful. It because it's coming into wholeness again. It's coming into wholeness. Being able to see a life as fully and objectively as we possibly can without sort of adding more, you know, really from a place of love. Ultimately that is wholeness, that is healing.
Being able to look at things again through the lens of love, I would argue. And that's what I'm hearing. And, and how you're relating to your mom.
Chris Kalbfleisch: Yeah. And just recognizing that everyone's got circumstances that we just don't understand and it's because we can only see the world from our own perspective and experience.
And if we even try a little bit.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah.
Chris Kalbfleisch: To take the seat, put ourselves in the other person's shoes, all of a sudden that love can, that flood and empathy can flood in and it changes everything. Everyone's out there. Nobody wants to do bad. Everyone's trying their best. Everyone wants to be a good person.
Everybody wants love.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah. It's so true. Speaking of love, how did you meet your [00:50:00] second wife?
Chris Kalbfleisch: Remember, uh, remember that story I told you about being in that yoga studio and the yoga teacher came and tapped me on the shoulder? Yeah, that's Jacqueline.
Jonathan Hermida: That was her.
Chris Kalbfleisch: Incredible, incredible. It's funny when she tells, she tells the story, it's like, yeah, that there's no love at for a sight there. This dude was talked.
I was, I was just trying to help him out to get him outta my class, but it was a year and a half later. Um, we, we reconnected. She was, um, running an on online yoga program that I signed up for and we reconnected that way. And I just, I remember her looking and goes, I can't believe you're the same individual, same person.
And we started chatting and it turns out she was a therapist, a coach, a yoga teacher, all the things I was doing. And we just, uh, decided to get together, uh, for a dinner one night. And, uh, that was it. That was it. That became love at first sight. I
Jonathan Hermida: became love at first sight. It was, it was a felt sense for both of you.
Chris Kalbfleisch: Absolutely. Yeah, it was, uh, it was one of the most profound experiences because within that [00:51:00] too, yeah, she, we sat down and was I, I came over to her house and, um, she asked me this question. She goes, so tell me your story. And I'm like, and I'm in this, I'm in this place now. I've, I've been doing transformation for, you know, close to two years.
And I, my mo, my, my anchor is rigorous honesty. And I just said to her, okay, you might want to sit down 'cause you're about to get the whole story. And I told her all of it. And I've done that in the past. And, and many times, you know, I, I could see people's reactions that it's, it's too much. It's this, it's scary, whatnot.
And, uh, didn't know what was gonna happen after that. I thought maybe we'll just have a nice meal. I'll never for see her again. But she just looked at me and she goes, that's the most, that's the most honest I've ever heard anyone be. And it's like, it's, it's incredible. Let's, let's continue this. Yeah, incredible.
That was, and I reflect that too. That, and I, I feel my body right now that's, I remember her looking at me when telling the story, and she said that to me and it's like, oh my God, this woman actually sees me. Yeah. She, through, [00:52:00] she, she sees, through the story that I've been living through, uh, she sees the transformation.
She sees the butterfly, not the caterpillar, not even the cocoon anymore. She fully sees who I am now. And, uh, that was a pretty beautiful moment, uh, to be felt that way, but also, uh, for her, for her and her own journey to say, I can see past all that stuff now too.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that is the ultimate, um, moment for you because from living and coming from a place of not being good enough and something's wrong with me to look at every part of me, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
Look at me. I'm here, I'm standing in front of you naked. And then to be received in that way.
Chris Kalbfleisch: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That's every, every. Defect character. I have every, everything I've done wrong, I'm lay it all out in front of you to do you want and you're just gonna love me through it. Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida: Incredible.
Incredible. Yeah. Incredible. What was it like getting into a relationship with someone with kids?
Chris Kalbfleisch: [00:53:00] Hmm.
You know, it was, it was filled with fear at first and also, uh, with excitement. One, I love kids and I love her kids. And I, and I, and I, and I do love my step kids, and they're wonderful. And they were so accepting of me even knowing big parts of my story. They were so accepting of me. But I was one had this fear that, well, if I, if I love them.
What does it mean for my kids who I'm still trying to reconnect with? And so that was just, I was, I had these torn feelings, but over, but overall, you know, I just kept asking the question, what, you know, I kept asking for guidance more and more. I just tried to let go of my egoic thinking mind and my fears and like, what, what is the path of love here?
What is, what is the path I meant to be on? And so, uh, it, it, it didn't, it didn't take long to let go of those fears and get past that and just fully, fully embrace [00:54:00] what was hap what was wanting to happen in this situation. And we ended up moving pretty quickly. Um, I ended up, we ended up moving in together probably about just under a year after we met.
Jonathan Hermida: Sure.
Sure.
Chris Kalbfleisch: And it was a big part of like, you know, um. In the absence of my kids seeing the journey I've been on, I was witnessed by these kids who very much see me as a, as a central father figure in their life as a transformed version of the mature masculine. And that's the role I play in their lives. So I feel very seen by them at a time when I think I needed to be seen.
Jonathan Hermida: Totally, totally. By, by, by children of sorts that you know, of, of and of sorts that, that see you as a father. Yeah. It, I can see that also being healing there.
Chris Kalbfleisch: Yeah. And, and you know, it's interesting, just, just recently, a, a few weeks ago I went into my stepdaughter's class who's, uh, she's in grade 12. Uh, she, 'cause they're speaking about addiction and she, she brought me in to tell my story because she's so proud of it.
Jonathan Hermida: Incredible.
Chris Kalbfleisch: What was that experience that.
Jonathan Hermida: like for you?[00:55:00]
Yeah.
Chris Kalbfleisch: Yeah, that was, that was a really incredible experience because I've told my story multiple times, um, you know, in front of people at like recovery fellowships. I've told it on podcasts before, but this is the first time I'm sitting down in a, in a group of young people who, you know, have yet to learn many lessons in life and just tell this raw story.
And what I was blown away by is that from the moment I started this whole room of kids, they were locked in. Nobody was on their phones. Everybody was listening. I could tell they were actively listening. They were really interesting, and they all asked the absolute most amazing questions afterwards, the best questions I've ever fielded about addiction and what it means.
So you could, it was really, I could really tell this meant something to them. They were, they were being, I was sharing something with them that was meaningful in their lives. Whether it was something to do with their family members themselves, a loved one, this is something we wanted to know. So it was a very powerful, cathartic experience for everybody.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah. The other thing that's so notable about your journey is how it all [00:56:00] happened within such a relatively short amount of time.
Chris Kalbfleisch: Yes.
Jonathan Hermida: It, it's a truncated because in some regards, so many people in your life saw you in, in, at, at your, that version of your height. Yeah. You know, when, when everything was going well and all things were going, so when, when things got started to, to go bad, they went bad quickly, and then the turnaround was quite quick as well, relative.
So it's, it's really interesting to, to see that.
Chris Kalbfleisch: Yeah. And I think for a lot of people, like say, say my old company, there were certain people that were, were associated with me every day could saw the slow decline, but I really did take this leave of absence and just fell off the map for everybody. Right.
And then, and then most, most people fortunately, missed the worst of it. Right? Yeah. You know, the people that, that caught the worst, it were my, some of my best friends and, um, and the people I love the most. And what's really interesting about this transformation are those are all the people that have still yet to resurface.
The, that relationship with the people that were sort of in the, the, the eye of the hurricane of it all are, are the group of [00:57:00] people that are still, you know, quite tentative to, to, to create connection again with, with, you know. I understand. So I've, I have lots of empathy and compassion for that.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah, totally.
Totally. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting also hearing you and, and the level of clarity of healing, of wisdom that you have in you embody, because I, I've. Been around many people who have continued to struggle with addiction and you know, it's, um, yeah, it's very easy to not trust those people.
you know?
But, but also, but also it's, I, especially those closest to me who have struggled with it, they haven't proven that they're trustworthy.
But what I'm hearing from you is a level of, again, clarity, wisdom, insight. You know, you're speaking with sobriety, not just with lack of alcohol, but just like a sober mind, you know, truly sober mind. And so, you know, I'd, I'd be curious if they actually gave you a moment in time and they heard you speak and they saw your face and they felt your presence, [00:58:00] I can't imagine that they wouldn't experience you differently.
Chris Kalbfleisch: Yeah, and I, I think that's true. And I think it's a matter of, you know, for all this stuff, it's a matter of. When, not if, and again, it's, I keep coming back to this idea that this is on God's time. Because if these people have come back in my life in the first week, I'm not here today. I'm probably stuck in addiction first year, probably stuck in addiction.
I don't know what the right time is.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah, I
Chris Kalbfleisch: know, I know there is too soon. And I know the, and I don't know if there's too long, but I, I'll trust, I'll trust God has got a plan for that. And, and when it's gonna happen, it's gonna be beautiful. But much like you said, like it's, it's, um, I have grown up with an alcoholic and so I can have some understanding of, but I could look, I have a lot of clarity looking back at myself.
And I remember considering myself a very, very honest person. But in my alcoholism and my addiction, if my lips were moving, Jonathan, I was lying. I was lying about absolutely everything for about a year, [00:59:00] year and a half period. And so there's, I destroyed every level of trust that exists with anybody, uh, over that period of time.
And that's, you know, that just takes time to bring back. But I'm aware of it. And so I can see, yeah, I know why you don't trust me. And it's gonna take, it's gonna take time to build that up again. And I've got time and patience now. Thanks. Transformation, right? That's, that's all we have.
Jonathan Hermida: Yes you do. Yes you do.
What's been the most difficult part of your second career in building a business from the bottom up?
Chris Kalbfleisch: You know, it's a, it's an interesting thing. It's, it's resisting the urge to want to achieve something. It's, it's those, those old habits of like wanting to accomplish something, wanting to build something, wanting a metric that proves I'm doing it right, wanting to make money, and I'm really trying to like be aware, not.
Not follow any of those metrics and just [01:00:00] try, try to really do it from the heart. Try do, do it organically and not fall into some of those traps. I'm, I'm very, very fortunate and grateful that I did financially well enough in my, in my previous career in life that I don't have a monetary, um, motivation for any of the work I'm doing right now.
I really do it because I love it and I really do wanna spread the message and, uh, to help people and be, be useful. And so the, the hardest thing is resisting that temptation to like, get my ego involved.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, it's a, it's, the ego's gonna wanna come in and take credit and, and, and want to take over and, and all those things.
Yeah.
Chris Kalbfleisch: Yeah. I almost fell into the trap. Oh,
Jonathan Hermida: no, no. Go ahead, please.
Chris Kalbfleisch: I was gonna say, I almost fell into the trap. It was about, um, what's, five or six months ago, a media company reached out to me and they're, they're great people, um, saying, Hey, we see, we saw some of your work. You, you've done, you have podcasts with your wife.
I do some writing, uh, and we think there's something there. We think there's a bigger audience for your message. You could help a lot of people and we could help promote you. [01:01:00] Uh, you know, we, we work with people like Mel Robbins and these other people, and, you know, quickly my mind goes in there, well, you know, I should create a sizzle tape and work with these people and do all this stuff because of course I wanna help lots of people.
That's the, the story my mind was telling. Ultimately it was just that, it was just this process of self portrayal that was happening under the surface where I'm trying to be someone. Fortunately I have a, a, a relatively enlightened wife who just, who I sounded it off of, and she's just like, are you crazy?
Do you hear yourself talk? You hear yourself talk right now? And, and, and, and checked me on it. And I, and I, and fortunately I have the ability to sit back and really take that in and go, oh yeah, you're right. That was, that was wild. I almost, I almost went there. Um, yeah. So I, you know, wisely enough said no to that and got back to doing it different way.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah. What are some of the most notable examples of people you've been able to help that, you know, as a result of you doing the work? I mean, you don't have to give, no, definitely don't give names. But in terms of, you [01:02:00] know, just something that stands out as a story that, you know, because of your presence, because of you, this person turned their life around as well.
Chris Kalbfleisch: Yeah, there's sort of two categories. The first is like, um, I spend a lot of my time, uh, working as a sponsor for people in addiction, and those are the most, I mean, there's just so much, there's so much joy that comes from that because many people that, you know, similar places that I ended up estranged in their families, estranged from their kids facing jail time and to work with them, watch them take these steps, get sober and have their children come back in their life and their, their spouses come back in and start to flourish in their community and they go out and help other people, number of those.
And that is just so much joy in that. And then in more in my coaching business, I think I tend to like my. People I tend to attract the most are, are generally men, uh, similar aged as me, that are, again, they're quite successful in their career, but are sort of living a life of quiet desperation and just watching them, um, find [01:03:00] the courage to say, you know what?
I don't need to do this job anymore. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna travel the world, or I'm gonna, I'm gonna stop and I'm gonna, I'm gonna write a book, or I'm gonna become a fitness instructor because that's what I want to do. And just seeing and just seeing their joy show up in their life again, and all the relationships get better and becoming more present with their, with their loved ones.
Um, yeah, those are the experiences that just keeping coming back from more in this work.
Jonathan Hermida: Hmm. That is the ultimate mark of a transformational journey. Fully walked is being of service. On the other side of it, there we almost have no choice but to give back and to be there for others.
Chris Kalbfleisch: It's, it's, no, it's no choice.
And like, you know, it's like, it almost feels like something coming from addiction background. It almost feels like a new addiction, but it's like, I guess I'm gonna surrender to that too, because at least it's a, it's a super healthy one.
Jonathan Hermida: At least it's a super healthy one. Yeah.
Chris Kalbfleisch: Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida: What, what did the deep coaching intensive give you along the journey?
Chris Kalbfleisch: [01:04:00] A framework to make sense of it all. You know, it really, that's the one thing that, um, it provided, uh, particularly the onset, uh, some of those models, like the six stages of, um, personal power, the hero's journey, the, the Caterpillar example. It just started to create a framework for me to understand, oh, this is the journey I've taken.
This is the journey I'm on. These are the stops. These are the places it's making, it's, it's started to organize it in my mind a little bit more. And then, and then the various practices. It helps solidify how this journey goes, though. That's, that was the main takeaway. Just a, a, a real clarity, and particularly that I'm not alone in this thing.
This is, this is something that's played out, you know, in myth throughout the ages, and this is just my version of it.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah. Yeah. And for those that aren't aware, the Deep Coaching Intensive is a flagship program that we run through the Center [01:05:00] for Transformational Coaching. And as, as we begin to, to wrap this conversation up, uh, those listeners that are here with us right now, what may be struggling with their own thing or maybe on their own transformational journey, what bit of advice, what, what tips, suggestion, what ins inspiration might you give them as they navigate their journey?
Chris Kalbfleisch: Hmm.
I think, I think the greatest advice I give is, um, to really embrace the concept of surrender and really embrace the concept of this idea of powerlessness. The more you're able to surrender. Your way of thinking, um, uh, surrender and move from the head [01:06:00] into the heart, the easier this journey becomes. And it's really about just getting out of your own way and, and trusting and allowing what wants to show up and come in.
Um, and, you know, that can be in a sense of, uh, you know, signing up for a, a transformational coach, but then wanting to alter it and do it your way or add your things to it. No, just do it the exact way it's been set up, taking the 12 steps, just do the 12 steps the exact way they're set up. Remove your thinking mind from this, completely surrounded the process and just see where it carries you.
That's, I think that's the best advice thing can give to anybody.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah. Perfect. Perfect. Chris, thank you so much for everything that you've been through, because it is, because of the things that you've been through and how somehow, some way something inside of you woke up.
up
To a different way, and we're guided into a different way of living and being that you are now here, a living testament of what's possible in a human life, [01:07:00] and it is incredible, your story is incredible, and I, and I thank you for sharing it so openly, so transparently with me and with us all.
And, and I know that your life will continue to have meaning and impact in, in all that you do because this is who you are and this is how you live. So thank you.
Chris Kalbfleisch: Well, thank you, Jonathan. Like, I mean, it's a, it's a real pleasure and honor to be here. And that's, that's one of the best things about this journey is meeting, you know, like-minded people like yourself and everybody else in the DCI community.
This has been, yeah, it's an incredible journey that just seems, it's just getting started too, so I'm, oh yeah. Looking forward to, uh, where it takes us.
Jonathan Hermida: Uh, beautiful. Beautiful. Thank you.